Pleading Wizard

Pledge of Allegiance:

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a reorganization and regular meeting of the Wanaque Board of Adjustment. Adequate notice has been duly advertised by the mailing of a notice to the Suburban Trends and Herald News on the 13th day of December 2005. A notice thereof has been posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building and a copy thereof is on file with the Borough Clerk. Before the meeting, we sworn in four new members, Mr. Eric Willse and Peter Hoffman was reappointed to four year terms and Mr. Art Koning and Mr. Ed Leonard were appointed as two year alternates. Roll call?

ROLL CALL: Chairman Jack Dunning, Frank Covelli, Peter Hoffman, Don Ludwig, Ed Leonard, Art Koning, Eric Willse, Attorney Ralph Faasse, Engineer William Gregor.

MEMBERS ABSENT: Members Bruce Grygus, Ted Roberto

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, the next order of business is to nominate a Chairman for the Board for 2006.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to nominate Jack Dunning.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other nominations? Roll Call.

NOMINATION OF JACK DUNNING FOR CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IN 2006.

Made by Member Covelli, Seconded by Member Ludwig. Voting yes were Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you Mayor.

MAYOR BALUNIS: Mr. Chairman.

MR. FAASSE: How many years is this now?

MR. CHAIRMAN: That I've been on the Board?

MR. FAASSE: No, that you've been Chairman.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't know.

MR. FAASSE: Are you staying Mr. Mayor?

MAYOR BALUNIS: No, I have some other things to --

MR. FAASSE: Thank you very much for coming.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. All right. Let's move along here. The next item is the nomination for Vice Chairman.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to nomination Bruce Grygus.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Do we have any other nominations? Okay. Roll call on that Gerri?

NOMINATION OF BRUCE GRYGUS FOR VICE CHAIRMAN

Made by Member Covelli, Seconded by Member Ludwig. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. FAASSE: That will teach him to take a month off.

MR. CHAIRMAN: He goes to Florida, he's punished.

MR. FAASSE: That's it. That will teach you guys.

MR. COVELLI: See what happens when you are not here Ralph.

MR. FAASSE: I know.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We know how to treat the members.

MR. HOFFMAN: Don't ever take a day off.

MR. COVELLI: That will teach him.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Next item is the nomination of the Board Engineer. Before we go to that we need to discuss the new legislation on the bidding or alternate process, right?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, since you are our legal advice, would you like to slightly explain this because nobody seems to understand it.

MR. FAASSE: I know nothing. I really haven't come up to speed with that I didn't know the question was coming up. There is a provision to keep persons who do business with towns from donating to public officials and political parties but there also is a side to it that certain positions, certain jobs, you do have to open it up for bids. My understanding was, up until tonight, was that the threshold for the bidding process was possible income to salary totaling in excess of $17,500 but I am not 100 percent sure of this. Certainly, I could research it to be able to advise you further. I mean we should be taking instructions from the Borough Attorney as well on this because it should be uniform throughout the Borough and not just something that this Board implements versus the Council and Planning Board. But that is about all I could tell you.

MR. COVELLI: Would you like Associate Council to add?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

MR. FAASSE: I mean, I have Mr. Gregor here available.

MR. COVELLI: Well I am a graduate of the Princeton Laws of School. I don't know about him.

MR. FAASSE: You got to tell the new guys the jokes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Member Covelli is going to update a little bit. He is not --

MR. FAASSE: You got to tell them the joke, Princeton doesn't have a law school. Whenever they want to supercede the attorney, that is what they say, I got my degree from Princeton Law.

MR. COVELLI: As I understand it, Mr. Chairman, and not being legal counsel and putting those qualifiers into my following statements. The law affects the award of professional services contracts for professionals that were previously exempt of the Public Contracts Law, which used to be described as extraordinary and unspecifiable. Services of attorney, engineer, risk management, auditor, all fall underneath those distinctions.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, planners.

MR. COVELLI: I concur with Mr. Faasse that the law states that unlike the Public Contracts Law the threshold is $17,500. It is my understanding it includes monies that are paid through escrow.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, whatever fees -- in other words that you would generate from the town.

MR. COVELLI: There are two processes, as I understand it. One process is called Fair and Open, whereby the Board -- by the way, the Board is responsible for its own appointments, independent of the Borough. Therefore, we have to make a decision on whether we are going Fair and Open, which is process that requires us to issue requests for qualification. Put out a set of specifications or qualifications. We have to -- we could either advertise it on a website or in a newspaper. Give folks time to respond and then award, not necessarily based on price considerations. On expertise, institutional knowledge, etcetera, etcetera. Or we can go other then Fair and Open, which means that a Certification which Gerri, as our Board Secretary, would obtain from the Borough Clerk, indicates all of the political campaigns of each of the governing body members and the parties within the town and the Board Professionals would sign a Certification that they have not exceeded reportable contributions for the previous 12 months. It would be my suggestion that the Board go with that process. The Borough is going under that process. The law just became known about at the end of November. There has been a lot of discussion back and forth. A lot of towns have not been able to get fully up to speed. In fact, the Department of Community Affairs, I went to a seminar a week and a half ago, the Department of Community Affairs wasn't even completely clear on how this law is going to fully shake out. So, basically, the other then Fair and Open process, actually, does limit the contributions and I think it is actually in the spirit or the intention of the law. And, in fact, I don't believe any of our professionals would have a problem with that Certification. And, at that point, we can under tonight's rules reorganize, appoint our professionals and move forward pending their submission of the Certification to finalize their contracts.

MR. FAASSE: But the way I understand it though, you could still certify that you contributed in excess of the $300 --

MR. COVELLI: You are exempt in 2005.

MR. FAASSE: Pardon?

MR. COVELLI: Contributions in excess of the $300 are exempt for 2005.

MR. FAASSE: Right.

MR. COVELLI: Going forward the 300 rule applied.

MR. FAASSE: Right.

MR. COVELLI: Over 300 applies.

MR. FAASSE: Right. But that doesn't preclude you from adding a position; it is just that you have to disclose it. Right?

MR. COVELLI: No. You will be signing a Certification --

MR. FAASSE: That you will not.

MR. COVELLI: -- for 2005, for the previous 12 months.

MR. FAASSE: For 2006.

MR. COVELLI: That you have not made reportable contributions.

MR. FAASSE: Right.

MR. COVELLI: Because it is the first year, all contributions in 2005 are non-reportable. Going forward now in 2006, you can make up to $300 per elected official and a party organization.

MR. FAASSE: Can't go to the dinner anymore.

MR. COVELLI: Not that I really know an awful lot about this law, it is just what I picked up.

MS. MAROTTA: You picked up a lot.

MR. FAASSE: That is very interesting because I did go to reorganization meetings both yours and in North Haledon.

MR. COVELLI: I am teasing, Gerri, the law is applicable.

MR. FAASSE: That is why he is coming up to speed on it.

MR. COVELLI: I had to.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, quick.

MR. LUDWIG: That Princeton Law School is pretty good.

MR. COVELLI: They don't advertise. So with that said, Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion to appoint -- can we do it combined or do you want it separate?

MR. FAASSE: Well the procedure you can do. You can make a motion for the procedure, which one you want to follow.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The procedure, then we appoint each one separately.

MR. COVELLI: I would make a motion that the Wanaque Board of Adjustment for the 2006 year appoint our professionals under the Certification process whereby they will certify to the Board and ultimately to the Borough that they have not made any reportable contributions in the previous 12 month period.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll second it.

MR. FAASSE: There you go.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. When Gerri goes to do the minutes, you will fill her in with what you just said.

MR. COVELLI: Well so far she is running the tape so it is probably on there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is going to be tough.

MR. COVELLI: When we take over, no one knows what is going to be on that CD.

MR. FAASSE: Listen, we can't wait until Gerri starts doing the minutes.

MS. MAROTTA: Do you want me to do a roll call on this?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, we have to do a roll call on this.

MOTION TO APPOINT BOARD PROFESSIONALS UNDER THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS

Made by Member Covelli, second by Member Ludwig. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MS. MAROTTA: So this for the Certification of the Process.

UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: So gentlemen, do you always take advice from a non-attorney and then vote? I am just kidding.

MR. LUDWIG: It is the Princeton Law School, very impressive.

MR. FAASSE: Listen, he is going to summarize this and give us all a memo.

UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Oh, okay.

MR. FAASSE: As to what he said so we will all understand.

MR. COVELLI: Please no more members, I have written enough about this.

MR. LUDWIG: In light of that, we were on for the --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nomination of the Board Engineer.

MS. MAROTTA: Now we can do the engineer.

MR. LUDWIG: I would like to nominate Bill Gregor.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, do we have any other nominations for the position of Board Engineer? Okay, let's close that. Let's go with a roll call on that, Gerri.

NOMINATION OF WILLIAM GREGOR FOR BOARD ENGINEER:

Made by Member Ludwig and Second by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. FAASSE: Congratulations, how many years is that for you?

MR. GREGOR: Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, nomination of the Board Attorney.

MR. FAASSE: Did we ever check his license though? We should check it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is true.

MR. GREGOR: It is valid.

MR. LUDWIG: You sure it is in full effect.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is long licensed?

MR. FAASSE: One that shows up on a website.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, an engineering degree.

MR. LUDWIG: In light of that I would like to nominate Ralph Faasse, as long as he is a member of the Bar and in good standing.

MR. FAASSE: As far as I know, I am.

MR. LUDWIG: Okay.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to second that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: A second on that, okay. Is there any other nominations for the position of Board Attorney? Okay, we close that. Let's have a roll call on that Gerri.

NOMINATION OF RALPH FAASSE AS BOARD ATTORNEY:

Made by Member Ludwig, second by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Congratulations.

MR. FAASSE: Thank you. Like Abraham Lincoln, you see you can fool some of the people some of the time.

MS. MAROTTA: Ralph and Bill you are going to have to send me contracts now.

MR. FAASSE: Contracts now?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum

MR. FAASSE: No, Certification he said.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Certification.

MR. COVELLI: There has to be contracts, there has to be contracts also.

MR. FAASSE: Really?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Certification is income.

MR. FAASSE: Oh man, I am going to have to do some research on this.

MR. HOFFMAN: Wow, its too late, you already agreed.

MR. COVELLI: The difference is, when I do the research it is free, when you do it is per hour.

MR. FAASSE: I know.

MR. CHAIRMAN: How many years have you been here?

MR. FAASSE: Oh, since 1980.

MR. CHAIRMAN: 1980, that's going on 26 now.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, you think they ought to give me a plaque.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We should give you a plaque, okay.

MR. FAASSE: Name a building after me.

MR. CHAIRMAN: There you go, the Faasse wing.

MR. FAASSE: The part where the judge is shot. That's all right, we'll get a mirror in the bathroom. We'll call it the Faasse mirror.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item is the Procedures and Bi-laws.

MR. FAASSE: They would be the same.

MR. CHAIRMAN: To continue as we have used the ones that have exist in the past that Mr. Faasse is the keeper of.

MR. FAASSE: I don't know, I think it is in the storage closet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Somewhere. I need a motion on that.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll make a motion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, a second on that.

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Roll call.

MOTION TO USE THE EXISTING PROCEDURES AND BILAWS:

Made by Member Ludwig, second by Member Hoffman, voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Next item is the adoption of the existing meeting dates to continue on the first Wednesday of the month and our site visits are to be conducted on the Saturday proceeding the monthly meeting at 10 a.m. when required.

MR. LUDWIG: I make a motion to maintain the existing dates.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We got to check the calendar first.

MR. FAASSE: No, the only question I would have, we always had the 7:30 work session, 8 o'clock start a meeting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. FAASSE: Would the Board want to consider just -- you know -- I mean the work sessions have been relatively meaningless.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, but you know what it does? It gets everybody here so we can start at 8 o'clock.

MR. FAASSE: Well I just wondering if you want to 7:30, to see if you want to start at 7:30.

MR. CHAIRMAN: But then you would want to get here earlier.

MR. FAASSE: All right, no, I just --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well it is up to you.

MR. FAASSE: I'll tell you one thing we can't ever --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Catch up or whatever.

MR. FAASSE: -- take a vacation in August.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: We got killed this year with that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Well that is a thought. That is the next item after the meeting date. Let's do the meeting date first, then we will go to the time, that is the next item.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, I'm sorry.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right, so to stay with our meeting schedule which is the first Wednesday of every month and our, when required, Saturday site visits at 10 a.m. proceeding the meetings.

MR. COVELLI: Motion.

MS. MAROTTA: Well, Don made it.

MR. COVELLI: Second.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You are the second. Roll Call.

MOTION TO STAY WITH THE FIRST WEDNESDAY OF THE MONTH MEETING SCHEDULE:

Made by Member Ludwig, Second by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item is the time. In the past, as counsel was just speaking about, we have 7:30 workshop and an 8 o'clock meeting. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

MR. COVELLI: I'm late at 8 o'clock sometimes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know, sometimes it hard getting here.

MR. HOFFMAN: Do we advertise the 7:30 that immediately preceding we can begin business?

MR. FAASSE: No, we -- work session 7:30, regular meeting 8.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: Wouldn't it be wise for us to do that so if we wanted to start early.

MR. FAASSE: We would have a problem then for the notice for the public hearing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We would have to give special notice.

MR. HOFFMAN: No, if you advertised the work session at 7:30 --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: -- with the regular meeting immediately following it can be anywhere after 7:30.

MR. FAASSE: That's true.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: Which means that if we had a very heavy agenda, we had a full Board we would actually start at 7:45 for example.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We could start at 7:30.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, but the only problem we have then is that we have to tell the applicants to notify at a specific time. So what do we tell them, 7:30, quarter to 8, 8 o'clock.

MR. HOFFMAN: 7:30 is the work session with the regular meeting immediately proceeding.

MR. FAASSE: Whatever your pleasure.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Whatever your pleasure is gentlemen.

MR. HOFFMAN: And then you have a window to speed up or slow down the process accordingly.

MR. FAASSE: The only trouble you have with that when you say that the work session --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Is the notice, right?

MR. FAASSE: Well the notice but then you also get the public asking, why aren't you starting on time.

MR. HOFFMAN: We are starting at 7:30. We have a work session.

MR. FAASSE: I know, I am just saying.

MR. HOFFMAN: And then he can take a recess to 8 o'clock if he wants. Depending on the number of Board Members.

MR. FAASSE: You might have just a problem with the public that way.

MR. HOFFMAN: Hum?

MR. FAASSE: You might have problems with the public when people come out at 7:30.

MR. LUDWIG: It just seems to me that 8 o'clock is rough.

MR. FAASSE: For some.

MR. LUDWIG: Frank has had a couple of times when he has been struggling to get here.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh yeah. When you look at -- you run into things with your job. Ted, when he does make it, usually just makes it by 8 o'clock. It can be tough.

MR. COVELLI: You want to leave it the way it is.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let's leave it along for now.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MR. COVELLI: Motion.

MS. MAROTTA: Frank are you making the motion?

MR. COVELLI: 7:30, 8 o'clock.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll second that.

MS. MAROTTA: Second it, Don.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, the other thing is --

MR. HOFFMAN: Do we have write in our ending?

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is the other point.

MR. HOFFMAN: With no more testimony after 10 or 10:30.

MR. CHAIRMAN: 11 o'clock curfew we should put in there.

MR. FAASSE: That was always a rule that we followed.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. Does that have to be in the reorganization?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well we made that up a long time ago, we never put into the actual reorganization of our times.

MR. FAASSE: No, but -- you know -- you can say that we are going to have a curfew at 11.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah.

MS. MAROTTA: You mean you are going to cut the applications at 11?

MR. HOFFMAN: No more testimony after 10:30.

MR. FAASSE: A curfew, a curfew at 11. So an application --

MS. MAROTTA: Because then after applications you still have --

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, I can cut them off a 20 to and say we got 20 minutes of Board business to finish out so we are out of here by 11 o'clock.

MS. MAROTTA: Oh.

MR. FAASSE: So everyone knows that and can their wives.

MS. MAROTTA: I don't have to advertise that though.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We don't want to tell these new gentlemen how late we stay here sometimes. So let's not go there.

MS. MAROTTA: You also don't want to them about 1 o'clock meetings.

MR. FAASSE: There are some rules that are honored and they are a violation, this is one of them.

MS. MAROTTA: Okay, the time of the meeting is going to remain the same so we really don't have to take a vote.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah 7:30 work session, 8 o'clock regular.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, the same thing.

MS. MAROTTA: Okay.

MOTION FOR THE TIME OF MEETINGS TO REMAIN AT 7:30 WORK SESSION, 8 O'CLOCK REGULAR MEETING:

Made by Member Covelli, Second by Member Ludwig. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item is the official newspapers of notice. In the past we have used the Suburban Trends and the Herald News, which I believe the Borough is still using and we followed that standard for many years. We need a motion on that.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll make a motion to stay with existing.

MR. LEONARD: Second.

MS. MAROTTA: All right, who made it.

MR. LUDWIG: Ludwig.

MS. MAROTTA: And Ed?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, you are supposed to try and do that -- you know -- make it easy, you guys are right here.

MOTION FOR THE OFFICIAL NEWSPAPERS OF NOTICE TO REMAIN THE SUBURBAN TRENDS AND HERALD NEWS

Made by Member Ludwig, Second by Member Leonard. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, the next item is a motion to direct the Board Secretary to advertise in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Acts to give notice of the meetings dates for the year 2006.

MR. FAASSE: It would be to advertise and give further notice in accordance with.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. FAASSE: Because the Mayor and Council gives -- you know -- the Borough Clerk gives hers.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll make that motion, Member Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Got a second?

MR. KONING: Second, Art Koning.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, roll call.

MOTION TO DIRECT BOARD SECRETARY TO ADVERTISE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT:

Made by Member Ludwig, Second by Member Koning. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Gerri this is yours.

MS. MAROTTA: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, now we are going to take a five-minute break and then we are going to start our regular meeting. Now, where is the agenda?

MR. FAASSE: Right, here. You only got two.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know. We got to get the new members.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, and I got to have --

MR. CHAIRMAN: That folder.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, the only two matters -- just for the audience, the only two matters that we do have that hasn't been adjourned is Theodore Did Laura. Is there someone on the application here? Theodore Di Laura?

MS. MAROTTA: I don't see him.

MR. FAASSE: 10 Whistler Place. Then we have the Abma Application. Everybody is here on the Abma Application at 38 Furnace? The applicant is here, their attorney is here, everybody else is here on that one? Is anybody here on anything else?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, the other applicants. Donus is being carried, Santoro is being carried, Biggio is being carried and Fennelly is being carried.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, that is Donus is 1019 Ringwood Avenue, Santoro is 1185 Ringwood Avenue, Biggio is 835 Ringwood Avenue and Fennelly is 6 Oak Street.

Unidentified Female: Yes, that is what I am here for.

MR. FAASSE: You are here on that one?

Unidentified Female: Yes. I am.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oak Street is being carried.

MR. FAASSE: All right. Fennelly is -- we had a letter from an attorney on that one, didn't we.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, somewhere.

MR. FAASSE: Is that Mr. Becker too?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. LUDWIG: Di Laura and Abma.

MS. MAROTTA: Here is the letter on Santoro, here is a letter on --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Here is Santoro's letter.

MS. MAROTTA: Here is Donus' letter.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You can put these away.

MS. MAROTTA: Donus' letter.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, that is Donus.

MS. MAROTTA: Here, this is Fennelly.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, that is Fennelly.

MS. MAROTTA: How many do you got there? You got the four now?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Three.

MR. FAASSE: No, I got three.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Three.

MS. MAROTTA: Oh. There is the fourth one there. Di Laura.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Di Laura.

MS. MAROTTA: Di Laura, I didn't get a letter.

MR. FAASSE: Di Laura, nobody is here yet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, leave that here.

Application #10-05, David Donus, 1019 Ringwood Avenue

MR. FAASSE: All right. Okay, so why don't we just take this. David Donus Application, we have a letter here from the attorney. Unfortunately, Mr. Barbarula is under the weather. He has a very bad cold, laryngitis, cannot speak. Wow, what good is an attorney. Sometimes the attorneys that speak are no good but -- you know. Now you got one that can't speak. So he has asked to be carried to the February -- what is that date? Where is your official calendar Mr. Gregor?

MR. GREGOR: 2/1

MR. FAASSE: The first.

MR. GREGOR: The first.

MR. FAASSE: So the motion would be to carry the Donus Application to February 1.

MR. LUDWIG: I make a motion -- Member Ludwig makes the motion to carry to February 1st.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, who second it?

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second. Do we have time on that? Is there enough time?

MR. CHAIRMAN: What about the clock on that?

MS. MAROTTA: Wait a minute, I'm not -- wait, hold on. I'm not on this here. What did you just do?

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are talking about Donus carrying it to the next meeting. Didn't we have him give us an extension?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, we are good here until June 5th.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, he signed an extension at the last meeting.

MS. MAROTTA: What is Donus' Application number?

MR. FAASSE: It is 10-05.

MS. MAROTTA: Okay, and we are carrying it?

MR. FAASSE: Ludwig made a motion, seconded by Member Hoffman to carry this to the February 1st meeting as the attorney is under the weather.

MOTION TO CARRY THE DONUS' APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING.

Made by Member Ludwig, Second by Member Hoffman. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

Application #11-05, Santoro, 1185 Ringwood Avenue.

MR. FAASSE: All right the next one is Santoro, this is application 11-05. Again we got a letter from Mr. Carlo Coppa asking to me carried to the February meeting. We have an extension of time here, based upon this adjournment request the applicant hereby waives any and all time requirements.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh.

MR. FAASSE: That is a fact.

MR. LUDWIG: A motion to carry it to 2/1/06. Member Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: And who second it?

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Hoffman seconds it. This was a situation where we needed revised plans. I think we had them in the packet last month, revised plans on that. But there was a notice requirement as well. He had to renotice.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: And I again explained that to Mr. Coppa again, today, in a telephone conversation. Gerri would you take the roll please?

MS. MAROTTA: Sure.

MOTION TO CARRY SANTORO APPLICATION TO FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING.

Made by Member Ludwig, seconded by Member Hoffman. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

Application #15-05, Di Laura, 10 Whistler Place

MR. FAASSE: Anyone here on the Theodore Di Laura? This one we got a problem on. Did we get an extension on that?

MR. CHAIRMAN: He was here last month.

MR. FAASSE: No, no, he wasn't here.

MS. MAROTTA: No.

MR. FAASSE: He had come in, gave a letter I thought.

MS. MAROTTA: What is in that -- you have the file?

MR. CHAIRMAN: You got the file.

MR. FAASSE: I have the file.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, he doesn't.

MS. MAROTTA: No, okay.

MR. FAASSE: I don’t have that file.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is that one. This one.

MR. FAASSE: We are good to April the 30th, okay. So we got an extension to April 30th.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Bill, this is the one that you said there was something missing on, Di Laura?

MR. FAASSE: No, Abma?

MR. GREGOR: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. So he is up to date.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Becker, check your file, see if you got a certified survey. Mr. Gregor doesn't seem to have one.

MR. BECKER: I have a survey, I don't know whether you have seen it before but you know that is one that (inaudible).

MR. FAASSE: No, just -- you know -- we can satisfy that, hopefully. All right, so Di Laura, no appearance. Take a look at that there, Mr. Gregor.

MR. GREGOR: Um-hum.

MR. FAASSE: No appearance on Di Laura.

MS. MAROTTA: What is that application number?

MR. FAASSE: I'm sorry, 15-05.

MS. MAROTTA: Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, we need a motion on Di Laura whether to carry it or not now, since it is a no show here.

MR. LUDWIG: Do we carry it with the provision that they notify Gerri or whether they are going to --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Proceed with this application.

MR. LUDWIG: Proceed with this application?

MR. GREGOR: I'm sorry?

MR. LUDWIG: I said, can we make a motion to carry it?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, we'll do it in reverse.

MR. FAASSE: Well while don't we make a motion with the provision that if he does show up at the February meeting that it will be dismissed, all right?

MR. LUDWIG: All right, okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let's send him a note to that effect.

MR. FAASSE: Right, send him a note to that effect.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. Gerri will send him a letter.

MR. FAASSE: Is that your motion?

MR. LUDWIG: Yeah.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Ludwig makes the motion. Who seconds it?

MR. WILLSE: Willse

MR. FAASSE: Willse seconds it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MS. MAROTTA: I'm sorry now, what was that?

MR. FAASSE: It is a motion to carry it to the February 1st with you sending them a letter that if they are not here to appear in person to either request an adjournment or to proceed it is going to be dismissed at the February meeting. Motion was made by Mr. Ludwig, seconded by Mr. Wilson.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Willse

MR. FAASSE: Willse

MS. MAROTTA: Mr. who?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Willse

MR. FAASSE: Willse, I am going to get it yet.

MR. WILLSE: You get close, that's I ever ask.

MR. FAASSE: We are horrendous on names, so.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We get better as time goes on.

MR. FAASSE: No, I don't. I am an equal opportunity, I kill them all.

MOTION TO CARRY THE DI LAURA APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING.

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Willse. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

Application #19-05 Biggio Brothers 835 Ringwood Avenue

MR. FAASSE: Biggio Brothers, all right, that is another -- this is application 19-05, we have a letter on that one correspondence from Mr. Gregor asking to be carried. There is a little bit of a complication involved. The neighbor wants an easement and apparently there might be a lawsuit. He has granted an extension the last time. We are good for a couple of months yet. I have that paperwork here if somebody wants to know the exact date because I couldn't get a hold of Gerri right away so I wrote him a note saying that he needed an extension when I got the request for the adjournment. I spoke to Mr. Gregor today too, I said we could dismiss it without prejudice but he assures me that there is hopefully some progress will be made in the next month. So, based on that, I think we should grant him his request to carry it to February 1st.

MR. LUDWIG: I make a motion to carry it to February 1st.

MR. FAASSE: February 1st.

MR. LUDWIG: Member Ludwig.

MR. FAASSE: Who is second on it?

MR. LUDWIG: Nobody yet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nobody yet.

MR. FAASSE: Nobody yet.

MR. WILLSE: Eric Willse.

MS. MAROTTA: Eric.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, got it. And, if you want that information he is good through -- because he sent it to me, he is good through May 5th. All right, maybe I'm making notes on these, Don, so that we keep them. The next application is Fennelly.

MR. WILLSE: She hasn't roll called it yet.

MR. FAASSE: I'm sorry.

MR. WILLSE: She hasn't called the roll on that yet.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, she hasn't, oh.

MR. HOFFMAN: Wow, quick study.

MR. FAASSE: We have another third attorney over here. You didn’t call the roll call on that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: On what?

MR. FAASSE: The motion to carry --

MS. MAROTTA: Biggio.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know, we are doing something else.

MR. HOFFMAN: We didn't get there yet.

MOTION TO CARRY THE BIGGIO BROTHERS APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING.

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Willse. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Are we done with this one?

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, this is the one that we have to do yet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, that is the last one.

MR. FAASSE: This is Fennelly.

Application #21-05 Fennelly, 6 Oak Street

MR. FAASSE: We have an application here from the, or excuse me, a letter from the attorney, Schepis, Steven C. Schepis, requesting an adjournment. They had to make some modifications to the plan but, more importantly, their professionals are not available for tonight. So he asking to be carried to the February 1st meeting. How are we doing with time? We have enough time on that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, he is granting us an extension to March 1st.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, big deal.

MS. MAROTTA: Which one is that?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Fennelly.

MR. FAASSE: We already have March.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, okay.

MR. FAASSE: Because they only completed in November.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. LUDWIG: He wants to go to February?

MR. FAASSE: Yes.

MR. LUDWIG: That's going to be one hell of a meeting. I make a motion to postpone it to the February 1st meeting.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay, I'll second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, second by Hoffman. Roll call.

MOTION TO CARRY THE FENNELLY APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING.

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Hoffman. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, now you can take your break. We are going to take a five-minute recess.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now on Abma, do you have extra paperwork to give to the members?

MS. MAROTTA: I'll see.

MR. CHAIRMAN: See what you got. In the meantime --

MR. FAASSE: Now we are going to take a five-minute recess.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Five minute break.

MR. FAASSE: Because we got to get our new Board Members some plans for the Abma.

RECESSED

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let the minutes reflect that everyone is present who was present before our five-minute recess.

Application #20-05 Abma, 38 Furnace Avenue

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are going to move on to the only application this evening, which is #20-05, Steven and Rebecca Abma Application which is 38 Furnace Avenue. This is on a Bulk Variance.

MR. BECKER: Good evening members of the Board, David Becker from the firm of Jeffer, Hopkinson, and Vogel, on behalf of the applicants, Steven and Rebecca Abma. As been stated here, we are here for their property, 38 Furnace Avenue, which is also Block 220 and Lot 7 in the R-10 Zone. What they are proposing to do is construct a detached garage. Now that is permitted in the zone. The reason why we are here tonight is that they are asking for a height variance. They are looking to exceed the height a little bit to give them some more storage space. That is basically the reason why they want it, they want to create some more storage. Again, the garage itself is allowed, it is permitted and all the other setback variances and other variances we meet and satisfy but we are looking to go up 24 feet instead of the 15 that the ordinance says is the max. Just to orient you before I bring Mr. Abma up but, obviously, we are looking for a C Variance, we need to stress what our hardship as well as that it is consistent or it is not a detriment to the neighborhood. The lot that you are going to be looking at, Mr. Abma will kind of orient to you, is a fairly narrow lot. In fact, we have an undersized lot, unfortunately, but it also creates a situation where they are faced with a hardship. To create any real storage, it would be hard pressed to do it even for home storage on the present dwelling. So they are really looking to create storage in this garage for typical things that would go into a garage as well as to give them some more storage. Because if you see their house on the site plan that you got, they already would have setbacks, side yard, front yard problems on that house. So in the process of building this garage, which is going to house their vehicle, which is encouraged by the town and to house Mr. Abma's commercial vehicle which is required by your ordinance, they decided let's try to create that storage space there. In the process, they are asking for some more space to do that, again, because of this type of lot that they are faced with. What you will notice, again, Mr. Abma will go through it, is that he has a couple of photos of other garages in the area. You will probably see that what he is designing is quite similar to what is in the neighborhood. What we are trying to do is say here is what is already there, already been accepted, what some of the neighbors have and we are trying to, basically, pick something that is style is similar, size and height is similar to that neighborhood. Thus, it doesn't look like it is out of place. We do have an architectural design and Mr. Abma has some photos of a couple of the other garages in the area. What I would like to do, unless there is any administrative questions of me, is to bring Mr. Abma up here and have him kind of go through the lot, go through what we are proposing here tonight and just talk about what he is looking to do with this garage.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum. Okay.

STEVEN ABMA, SWORN

MR. FAASSE: Okay, just for the record, one of the applicants, what is your first name?

MR. ABMA: Steven.

MR. FAASSE: Steven. And you own the property, I assume, that is with your wife Rebecca?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. BECKER: She is in the audience as well.

MR. FAASSE: Okay. So it is Steven M., 38 Furnace Avenue.

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. BECKER: Mr. Abma can you just describe your lot currently and what I am going to do, I think all Board Members have a copy of what has been marked as the Site Plan prepared by Gerald Gardner and Associates. And I will mark that as A-1 and tonight's date 1/4/06. All Board Members, I believe, have a copy.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, just so we are all on the same page. What is the date of that, Mr. Becker, please?

MR. BECKER: This was prepared by Gerald Gardner and Associates. The date on that was design date, 9/21/05, check date 9/26/05. And, again, I am marking it as A-1, Applicants' Exhibit 1, today's date of January 4, 2006. Mr. Abma just to orient the Board, could you just kind of take them through the lot, where the structure is, what you are proposing to put, what it looks now, where you are going to propose the garage and even the dimensions of the lot.

MR. ABMA: Okay, the dimensions of the lot, 50 feet wide by 196.6, I believe it is, in depth. As you can see, on the drawing, the house sits more towards the road which leaves me a bigger backyard. The backyard right now is just all lawn. It has a couple of trees, which we are proposing to take out. What we are looking to do based on the survey that I have gotten when I originally moved in, is put a driveway on the right side of the house which goes back to the backyard. We wanted to put the garage as far back as we could so it leaves some area for -- you know -- the kids to play around with, gives us a little bit of backyard outside of our house. So that is why we have it situated all the way towards the back of the property. The garage size that we are proposing to build is 30 feet wide by 28 feet deep. If you look on the architectural plans, it is 24 foot 4 inches, I believe, in height, and that would be to have the storage space up above the garage.

MR. BECKER: Just to -- there is an architectural plan that was also presented to the Board. It was prepared by Richard A., I think it is Belchard

MR. ABMA: Bouchard.

MR. BECKER: Bouchard Architects, it has a date on it of 9/26/05 and I will mark that as applicant's Exhibit A-2 and tonight's date as well 1/4/06. Again, just to kind of orient them to the proposed structure, Mr. Abma, why don't you tell them how many bays you are planning and what you are planning to do with the space above.

MR. ABMA: Okay. It is, basically, a two-door garage, the depth is deeper. My truck measures 21 feet in length. So, in order for me to get this truck in there -- it is a Pick Up truck, it is an F250 Super Duty Ford. It is a commercial truck and in order to get it in there I wanted to have a little bit of play as I pulled it in and that is why I wanted to go 28 feet deep. For the looks of it, I mean it has always been my dream to build a barn and this is a barn style garage, which is the main reason we actually bought the lot. But as far as the structure is concerned, we wanted the second floor because once the vehicles are in the garage, it doesn't really give us any storage space which we wanted to put up above.

MR. HOFFMAN: What is in that location right now on the property?

MR. ABMA: Just lawn.

MR. HOFFMAN: Do you have a garage on the site right now?

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. So this is going to garage your vehicles that you have both commercial and personal?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. Do you have any other vehicles that you own?

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay, so the purpose is to garage whatever vehicles you have.

MR. ABMA: Correct.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. And, again, just so we know, the space above, you are looking to use it for storage for your personal and some of your business?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.

MR. ABMA: Yes, for personal and business. As you can see I am in home improvement so I come with some materials and tools and stuff like that which I am a type of person where I would rather have all my stuff in a garage versus out on the property because I like a neat looking property and this is our first house, which is exciting for us. So going into it, we wanted to build something that we would be able to put everything in it -- you know -- keep very minimal things out in the yard. Have the second floor as storage for any extra stuff which is the reason why we have a door on the side of the garage with a pulley so that if we wanted to put anything that is a little bit heavier we can just tag it on that and just bring it up in there.

MR. BECKER: It is not your intention to do business from this site at home, correct?

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. BECKER: Okay. I mentioned to the Board at the outset of kind of an idea of where you got this style, design, height. You have some photos of some similar garages in the area?

MR. ABMA: Yeah, one of my things, as a contractor, as a home improvement kind of guy, I -- judging from the house, it is an old colonial house and looking at the area, I wanted to build something that I felt fit in the area that would actually add value to the area and to the house. By that, we came up with this plan. There is a couple of garages in the area, one of them which I took some of my cues off of, which is a couple of blocks away, I have pictures of those two garages, which I would like to show to you. One of them is a block away, that one is a four-door garage, it has a second floor. I am going to guess it is about 22 to 24 feet in height.

MR. FAASSE: Do you know the address of that particular garage?

MR. ABMA: What is that?

MR. FAASSE: Do you know the address?

MS. PORTER: Fredericks Street. It is 27 Fredericks Street.

MR. CISCO: 26 Fredericks Street. The house has been there since the 1906.

MS. PORTER: It has been there since the town was built.

MR. ABMA: It sounds like the garage has been there probably 100 years. There is another garage on, I think it was DeBow.

MR. FAASSE: That is A-3?

MR. ABMA: That is the one that is two blocks away. That is the red one, which is being passed around now. That is one that I took my cues off of. I had the opportunity to talk to the homeowner of that property and take some measurements of it. That garage is about 23 feet in height and about 25 foot square. Ours is just a little bit bigger both in width, depth and height. Now that garage, from what I understand, is 150 years old. It adds character to the area, which is something that I wanted to achieve too. Now I don't need a four-door garage but it would nice to have a two-door garage.

MR. FAASSE: This is A --

MR. CHAIRMAN: A-4.

MR. FAASSE: A-4

MR. HOFFMAN: Is this other garage here, part of the same property?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. HOFFMAN: The single garage?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. FAASSE: We should keep those photos.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are keeping them.

MR. FAASSE: They have been marked as evidence.

MR. ABMA: I do have pictures of my house and the backyard of my property from a picture if that would be of your interest to look at that.

MR. FAASSE: It is your case, Mr. Becker, sure.

MR. ABMA: The first picture basically shows the front of our house looking into the backyard. The next three to four pictures shows out of our back door looking to the left of our property, straight back and then to the right and then there is one final picture of a panoramic. To give you an idea of what the area looks like, of where it would be built.

MR. FAASSE: All these pictures are of your property.

MR. BECKER: These are of the applicants' property.

MR. FAASSE: Right, so how many photos are there, total?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Four -- five.

MR. ABMA: One, two, three, four, five. Five there plus the two garages.

MR. FAASSE: So why don't we just mark those A-5, consisting of five photos.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Five photos, a set of five.

MR. COVELLI: Have these been marked?

MR. FAASSE: I do believe they have.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Bruce isn't here tonight but Ralph marks them.

MR. COVELLI: That is why I am asking.

MR. FAASSE: I am doing Bruce's job too -- you know.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Collect double salary.

MR. BECKER: While these are going around, I might as well address too tonight, I received from the Board Engineer a Review Letter, which he handed to me tonight and I think all of the Board Members got a copy of it, I hope.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, dated December 30, 2005?

MR. BECKER: That is correct. Why don't we just go through it real quickly here so that if there is any questions on that. Point #1, obviously, would be a condition of the Highland's Preservation Area, which I know would be a condition of this Board. I am not sure exactly where we need to go with that just yet but, obviously, if that would be your condition, I don't have any problem with that. #2 is just basically setting forth what we are proposing. #3, I have provided copies of the survey that the site plan was taken from tonight. The Zoning Table, if the Board would want that on there we could -- you know -- amend our drawings as a condition of this approval for the rest of the site, that is #4. #5, the existing lot is nonconforming in lot area and lot width, which is correct, we have testified to that tonight and gave the dimensions of that. #6, the existing structure is nonconforming in front yard setback, side yard setback and total side yard setback. Again, we have testified to that. That is part of our application, we have already -- that is part of the reason why we are looking for this additional storage space above is we really can do anything with the house without coming here. So if we are coming here for the garage, we figured let's put it all in this one structure that is permitted there. Because if we are trying to do storage in the garage, trying to do storage here, we would be back doing two different structures because we couldn't do anything with the house without this Board's approval. #7, existing and proposed grading should be added to the plans, the area of the proposed structure appears to be in a low area. Maybe your engineer would want to address that. I am not sure whether that is really a concern or not. But, again, if it is a condition we probably wouldn't have a problem coming back with our engineer addressing that. All adjacent properties, property owned structures, zone lines, I believe you have in tax maps, I don't believe that needs to be -- we would ask just for a waiver on that. #9, the site plan shows water and gas lines from the existing dwelling. Let me just ask the owner himself on that. How are you serviced right now by gas or electric, and of the utilities?

MR. ABMA: Public Service.

MR. BECKER: Public Service.

MR. ABMA: Public Service and Gas.

MR. BECKER: Okay.

MR. ABMA: And water.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And water, okay.

MR. BECKER: And then #10, storm water management has been provided. The applicant should advise what is proposed. And I believe on the drawing that you have in front of you, the Site Plan, which we have marked as A-1, it does show a seepage pit. It does show on the site plan itself the drainage plan. And those were the issues that were addressed in your engineer's letter of December 30.

MR. GREGOR: Could I ask some questions regarding --

MR. BECKER: Absolutely.

MR. GREGOR: -- those answers. Going back to Item #2, the room above which is labeled as storage, shows a future bath. Is that your application requesting a bath in this garage?

MR. BECKER: It is part of -- let me let Mr. Abma just -- why he wants it and what he is looking to use it for.

MR. ABMA: The bathroom is basically just for some place where I can get cleaned up. I mean at the end of the day -- you know -- I am coming into the garage, I am back there, it would nice to have a spot back there to clean up. Other than that there is -- for the storage area, there may be a time where I would like to put like a desk, a file cabinet up there, just for a work space, so while I am working up there, it would be nice to have a bathroom. It is just -- it would be a luxury.

MR. GREGOR: All right. So is this a storage area or a work area for you?

MR. ABMA: Both.

MR. GREGOR: Both, okay. So it is not just storage.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: Okay, that is what I was -- because I thought I heard you say it was storage. Okay. While we are -- well let's move on.

MR. LUDWIG: It should be labeled as such on the plans then, right?

MR. GREGOR: Pardon?

MR. LUDWIG: It should be labeled as such on the plans.

MR. CHAIRMAN: As a proposed office space.

MR. GREGOR: Well is that is -- if that is what it is going to be, yes, it should be labeled on the plans.

MR. BECKER: I think in clarification, right, it is a work area but we want to make sure -- he is not looking to make it into an office that this is a -- like someone is going to come and visit him at the site of anything of that nature. This isn't where he is going to do business out of. It would be just like if I had my own office at home and I didn't hang my shingle outside. It is a desk, I do paperwork there. If he does that, that is what he is looking to do, is to do some drawings, do plans there.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. BECKER: But he is not going to run a business out of this storage area/work space. That is not his intention whatsoever.

MR. ABMA: That is correct.

MR. BECKER: So it could be work area/storage but it is not an office in the sense that he is going to do a business out of there.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. BECKER: That is not the intention.

MR. GREGOR: I am going jump around because it seems to be an appropriate question following that response. There are water and gas lines shown going from the existing dwelling to the garage.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. GREGOR: The water, I assume, was going to be for the future bathroom.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: What are the gas lines for?

MR. ABMA: The gas lines -- what I would like to do is in the -- because we have water lines in there, due to the bathroom, I wanted to have like a commercial space heater that gets hung from the ceiling in the garage, which would be a gas driven.

MR. GREGOR: Okay, so this would be a heated garage then?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: And a heated storage area as well?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: Okay. The only other question I have is regarding that specific area. If you look at the architectural plan, on the first floor plan where it shows right behind the storage area with two doors under the stairway --

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: -- there is a rectangle with the letter S in it.

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: Would you explain what that is?

MR. ABMA: That is a slop sink.

MR. GREGOR: Oh it is a sink, a slop sink.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: So do you have sanitary lines leaving this?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: All right, they are not shown on any drawing.

MR. ABMA: If you look on the --

MR. CHAIRMAN: They are Bill.

MR. GREGOR: They are? I missed it then.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They are on the left side of the -- the west side of the property.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, we ran them on the left side because they are not allowed to be run with the water and gas.

MR. GREGOR: I see there is, yes. All right, so you are running sanitary as well.

MR. ABMA: Yes, sanitary and electric on that side.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Is this going to have a separate hook up to the sewer or are you going to reconnect to your house?

MR. ABMA: It is going to tie into the sewer line that goes out to the road.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is going connect to the house sewer.

MR. ABMA: I believe what he has proposed is that it is going to connect out into the street but our line is running from the house out to the street on that side. So, if it is low enough, we would like to connect to there --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Directly to the street sewer.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, that is the plan. Unless the line leaving the house is low enough with the pitch.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now does that require another sewer hook up fee? No.

MR. COVELLI: Not for an existing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Even if he runs a new line to the separate building?

MR. COVELLI: He needs permission to connect.

MR. FAASSE: Oh yeah.

MR. COVELLI: Run more lines.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: But not another fee.

MR. COVELLI: But he is still one EDU, if it is one family.

MR. GREGOR: Okay, I think -- let's see -- all right on Item #7 on my report, again, I am jumping around.

MR. FAASSE: I see that.

MR. GREGOR: But I am just going to get the areas that -- I wanted to move the gas line so that we would address that with the water and sewer. During my site inspection, it appears that this area where the proposed garage is going to be located is bounded by retaining walls and is the low area. I saw a seepage pit proposed but it appeared to be handling the downspouts from the front of the garage. I think you should clarify whether or not you are going to be handling all of the downspouts and what type of grading you are going to have. Because, obviously, if you build a structure of this value you are not going to want it in an area that is going to be ponding water.

MR. ABMA: That is correct. The seepage pit was going to maintain the water from both roofs on the structure, which will be coming off. Looking down at it on the left side, there is the one line that you see that leaves but that connects to both the front and the back leaders that are on the garage.

MR. GREGOR: All right. Obviously, you will need to -- your engineer will need to provide the calculations to make sure that it is properly sized.

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. HOFFMAN: Bill, could we spend a moment on driveways.

MR. GREGOR: Um-hum.

MR. HOFFMAN: For one thing we have an ordinance with one driveway per dwelling, correct? The way this is drawn currently, you have an existing dirt driveway on the right hand side of the house and you are proposing a gravel driveway -- no I said that wrong. You have a dirt driveway on the left hand side of the house and --

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: -- and you are proposing a gravel driveway on the right hand side of the house that would go all the way back to the new structure.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: What is your intention with regard to the existing dirt driveway on the left hand side?

MR. ABMA: To turn that into lawn area and probably put a fence over there.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: I am glad you said that because that was one of the recommendations.

MR. HOFFMAN: That was the right answer.

MR. GREGOR: Because it actually crosses the property line and it is not wide enough for a driveway.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, he doesn't have enough property for that.

MR. HOFFMAN: He is already encroaching.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, that is why we actually shifted it to the right side.

MR. GREGOR: So that is going to be restored to lawn area?

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: That is going to be totally removed.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: And the curb cut there will be replaced with a full high curb.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. HOFFMAN: Now, Bill don't we have an ordinance with regard to paved driveways, macadams?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, Pete

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a gravel drive though.

MR. GREGOR: The driveways do require to be paved by ordinance.

MR. HOFFMAN: On this plan it says a proposed gravel driveway.

MR. ABMA: Okay, our goal is to have it paved as soon as we get the money.

MR. GREGOR: You understand that is the Ordinance of the Borough?

MR. ABMA: What is that?

MR. FAASSE: You just educated him.

MR. ABMA: Yeah. I know now.

MR. FAASSE: What he is saying then is unless you ask for some specific waivers or something else like that, as part of your construction before you get your final CO you are going to have to pave that driveway.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: So you are going to have to consider that with your financial planning if approval is granted.

MR. ABMA: Okay, all right.

MR. HOFFMAN: And since we are talking about driveways, on this drawing, the step that comes off that covered porch --

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. HOFFMAN: -- on the right hand side, it says to be removed. What does that do for the stairs coming off that porch?

MR. ABMA: Nothing, that is actually a landing.

MR. HOFFMAN: Because that is only the slab that is underneath there right?

MR. ABMA: Yeah, that is the landing.

MR. HOFFMAN: A landing -- that is the word I want, landing.

MR. GREGOR: That is grade.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, that is grade right there so the driveway would actually become the landing or the grade of the steps.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: The only other recommended condition I had on any action by the Board is that the setback numbers shown on the site plan be corrected to be in conformance with the setbacks shown on the survey. There are some differences in the setback dimensions that need to be corrected.

MR. FAASSE: So he infers -- and he incorporates that survey?

MR. GREGOR: Pardon?

MR. FAASSE: He incorporates that survey in this plan.

MR. GREGOR: And that is another thing. The survey should be referenced on the Site Plan.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: That is the state law.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: So you need to ask your engineer to do that as well.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you talking about the side setbacks Bill?

MR. GREGOR: The side setback. Well, actually, the side setbacks and the front setbacks.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They rounded the numbers out.

MR. GREGOR: Right, and the only trouble is that the front setbacks is a covered porch. So the front setback should be to the front of the porch.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, I see.

MR. GREGOR: Not to the structure.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. GREGOR: So that would have to be adjusted as well. Your front setback is not 29.1 feet. You have a front porch in front of that. The covered porch is considered in the setbacks, so that would have to be adjusted to show the actual dimension.

MR. ABMA: To the front of the porch.

MR. GREGOR: Yeah, I don't know if it is a 4-foot porch, a 6-foot porch. I didn't measure, while I was there, I was looking at the site.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: The survey shows it that way though.

MR. GREGOR: Mr. Abma your survey does as well but there is some rounding here and some were rounded up and some were rounded down.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: And the rounding down is going to hurt you if you are granted a variance and it is different.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: If you know what I mean.

MR. ABMA: I don't know if I do but okay.

MR. FAASSE: We deal with inches. In other words, what he is saying is that you ought to be accurate with which one you are dealing with.

MR. GREGOR: Some people are very technical and I wouldn't want to see you have to come back before the Board again because of a matter of inches.

MR. ABMA: Oh, okay.

MR. GREGOR: All right?

MR. ABMA: Okay, okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: I guess going back to the driveway again one more minute.

MR. FAASSE: Sure.

MR. HOFFMAN: If I am following this drawing, so we are running down the right side of the property, when we get to the proposed garage, the driveway kind of swoops off to the left with an area in the front, I guess, for turn around for vehicles coming out of the garage.

MR. ABMA: That is correct.

MR. HOFFMAN: On that right hand side, what happens to that land there?

MR. ABMA: What happens to the land?

MR. HOFFMAN: Yeah, in other words, is it paved, is it graveled, is it grass?

MR. ABMA: It is probably going to be grass.

MR. HOFFMAN: Is that the side where you are gantry is, overhead?

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. HOFFMAN: That tree is going to stay there too.

MR. ABMA: Yes.

MR. HOFFMAN: So you are not going to pull a truck in the side there to lower your --

MR. ABMA: No, whatever it would be. I mean, what I had in mind is sometimes I have extra windows that are left over from a job, so it would be just grabbing one of those and lifting it up and in. So anything that really would be coming on the side over there wouldn't be lifted off a truck in other words. It would just be walked back there on the side.

MR. COVELLI: Is the garage centered in the back, is it 10 foot from each side, is that what your proposal is?

MR. ABMA: Yes. Yeah with our setbacks being 5 feet off of the property lines on the sides, I didn't want to go right up to the property line, I want to have a little bit more space -- you know -- just for walk around room or whatever. So I proposed to do it 10 feet off of each side.

MR. HOFFMAN: I made a mistake Mr. Gregor, I do have one more thing on the driveway.

MR. GREGOR: Go ahead.

MR. HOFFMAN: Shouldn't the driveway be dimensioned?

MR. GREGOR: Yes, it should be dimensioned.

MR. HOFFMAN: And shouldn't we have not only a dimension on the width, shouldn't we have a dimension on the area in front of the proposed garage whereby we would know if there is a sufficient turning radius?

MR. GREGOR: Yes, that should be. With respect to the width of the driveway, if you look, the driveway is setback 1.6 feet from the property line.

MR. HOFFMAN: Along that right hand side?

MR. GREGOR: Along the right hand side.

MR. HOFFMAN: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: And if you look the dimension between the house and the property line is 13.5 feet?

MR. HOFFMAN: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: By deduction, I would determine what the width of the driveway is. But you are correct, it should be labeled on the plan and also the width, the length and width of that turn around area and access area, the pad in front of the garage should be dimensioned as well.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Abma, your existing house, is it a one-family house?

MR. ABMA: One family, yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And going back to what Bill's comment was, where you are setting your garage, with the retaining walls on each side, two properties at a higher elevation, does that pond up with water now?

MR. ABMA: Right now, right where the garage is, from what I understand there used to be a garden there so there actually that section immediately in that area actually where the garage is coming off of the property line is 10 feet, that section right there is actually a little bit lower than even the rest of the property right now. And I have -- we have been there since July, so I have been able to see what has happened since then. And I do find that it does pond there a little bit. It gets a little slushy in that area.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Because basically you are setting your garage at that same level.

MR. ABMA: Why I would like to set it a little bit higher off of the grade but it is not going to be -- it is not going to be as high as the retaining walls on the other side.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: So you still got a potential of trapping water and I think where the Chairman is going in that you have the walls higher than the land --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well the other things is, with storm water management, since we are dealing with site, we are going to change the driveway, it is going to be paved, you got a different surface now, you are going to have a run off situation, the 500 gallon seepage pit is just for roof run off.

MR. BECKER: Yes, that is what -- that is what is being proposed yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The property appears to be basically from the best that I could follow the topo lines, fairly level.

MR. GREGOR: It is fairly level but looking at my site inspection it appeared that left -- from the north -- I think it is the northerly corner of the property appears to be lower than the balance and it appears to be collecting storm water.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, but it is drawn as pretty equal 98 all the way across.

MR. GREGOR: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Even though it doesn't appear that way when you look at it. What happens to that surface water now once he paves the driveway?

MR. GREGOR: Well it depends on how he pitches the driveway and which way he pitches it. Obviously, if you pitch it to the north it is going to pond near the driveway. If you pitch it to the east, it is going to go to the adjacent property owner. If you pitch it to the west it is going to go that property owner. You pitch it to the south it is going to go to the street. It can be controlled, that is why I am asking for a grading plan so that you are -- because you got a large area of impervious now.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. GREGOR: You got a very long driveway --

MR. CHAIRMAN: You got 150 feet of pavement in there.

MR. GREGOR: You got a large turn around area and you got a 28 foot by 30 foot garage.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. GREGOR: All of that storm water which is going to be significant. This significant addition to impervious area, has got to go somewhere. We want to see where it is going and what that type of impact it is going to have.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, because the way that is drawn, a 500 gallon seepage pit is also going to pick up -- it has a storm water grading on top of that.

MR. GREGOR: Well the 500 gallon seepage pit is -- that is why I asked for calculations. In my estimation that is not nearly going to be large enough to handle this amount of run off. But that is something that we will see once we get the calculations, I don't want to speculate.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you need a storage area that big, that whole second floor?

MR. ABMA: Well it is like they say, one man's garage is another man's fortune.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. ABMA: So, I am a collector.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, builders save things, we understand that.

MR. ABMA: It would be nice to have that. Yeah my house is not set up in a way where I can use it as storage at all. I do have a basement but it is a very low ceiling in there. The attic space, there is a room up there, so it is limited for space there. So when we came into this, we really had the idea of whatever storage it would be nice to have that above the garage as far as storage space.

MR. GREGOR: Jack, I did have one more question. One of the things that I think I asked in my report was that the location of adjacent property lines and structures be added to the plans. The reason I did that is it appears that looking at the site inspection I also was able to obtain an aerial photograph and I was curious as to how close the adjacent structure to the garage will be. How much of a space between the existing dwelling unit there. It is a house actually, it fronts on Stephens Avenue. And I could share this with the Board Members.

MR. HOFFMAN: Is this a carport right here?

MR. GREGOR: I don't recall, maybe we could ask --

MR. HOFFMAN: Is that a carport on the house next to -- right there?

MR. ABMA: Yes, yeah where the pavement is there is a --

MR. HOFFMAN: Carport right?

MR. ABMA: Yeah, it is a carport.

MR. GREGOR: The question was how close are you to that structure?

MR. HOFFMAN: Is the carport right on the property line, go right up to the property line?

MR. ABMA: No, there is actually --

MR. FAASSE: Bring back those A-5.

MR. ABMA: I am trying to remember what that looks like right there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't think it showed up on them.

MS. PORTER: I would say it is properly about 4 feet from where the filers with carport --

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, excuse me, you will be giving a chance.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We can't take testimony that way.

MS. PORTER: OKAY.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry.

MR. FAASSE: We have to make a record. No objection or anything else but we have to do it in an orderly way.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are not allowed to help you.

MS. PORTER: That is all right, no problem.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No problem.

MR. HOFFMAN: I got a question, what kind of electrical are you going to have? What are you proposing for electrical to the building?

MR. ABMA: As far as amperage?

MR. HOFFMAN: Amperage and voltage.

MR. ABMA: Probably about 150 amp, 220 volt.

MR. FAASSE: Those are the ones you wanted?

MR. GREGOR: That is the best.

MR. HOFFMAN: Are you planning on doing any work in there for your business like a cutting or setting up saws, drills anything like that, to do -- to prep work for anything you would be bringing out? It is not going to become a workshop?

MR. ABMA: There will be some prepping. Not the majority of the time. I have a portable workshop that I bring to the job, so anything that I do on the job, it happens there. Once in awhile I have a situation where I might build a cabinet for a customer and then I will build it --

MR. CHAIRMAN: In the shop.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, in my shop, basically.

MR. HOFFMAN: That would be upstairs or downstairs?

MR. ABMA: Downstairs. Yeah, the garage with the depth of it I wanted to be able to have a little bit of space back there so in case I wanted to put a bench back there, I could store some of my portable workshop tools. I mean, as a garage its -- I always had a dream of building my own furniture for my house. So it is kind of a hobby place too --

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.

MR. ABMA: -- where I am going to building that.

MR. HOFFMAN: If you have work tools it is only going to be on the lower floor.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. HOFFMAN: You are not going to have any type of workshop, paint shop or anything else upstairs.

MR. ABMA: No, absolutely not.

MR. COVELLI: Mr. Abma, it sounds a garage that most any Tim Allen efficientondo would really be interested in.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, I mean it is my dream.

MR. COVELLI: There is a question that I have to ask you.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. COVELLI: You are before the Board of Adjustment looking for a variance which is a permanent exemption from the laws of the Borough of Wanaque --

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. COVELLI: -- to do what you want to do.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. COVELLI: The question begs in what you are proposing, that the structure will have its own entrance, its own bathroom --

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. COVELLI: -- its own heat, its own water, its own sanitary, 150 amps of power, there are some people that would view that as a beautiful workshop other people would move a bed, a stove, some knickknacks and call it an apartment.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. COVELLI: How would we ensure that your dream garage storage area remains a dream garage storage area in the future whether it be Mr. and Mrs. Abma living there or Mr. and Mrs. Smith buy it from Mr. and Mrs. Abma in the future?

MR. BECKER: He can answer that but I think one thing has to be clear --

MR. COVELLI: You have a good counsel by the way he jumped in at just the right time.

MR. BECKER: -- because normally when you look into separate apartments also you are looking at a kitchen and all of these things. If he did this in his own house, in a workshop, in a bathroom -- you know -- all of those things would be there and if you had a separate entrance someone would say well there is kitchen there, if you don't have it that usually is that demarcation line, you step over the bounds by a second kitchen or whatever. The problem he has here is he can't really do a workshop, he can't really do a work area, he can't really leave the storage in his house, again, because of limitations of his property so he is trying to create this. Now you understand your question, how does the town do that, it is always an enforcement mechanism. We are just coming in and telling you, this is what he is planning on doing. He has no intention of living out of this space or having it as an apartment, whatever. That is always a concern but there are other things that usually a Board gets more concern about, i.e. you are putting in some kind of kitchen facility. He is not doing that. Even the work area is going to be downstairs in the garage area. Those are always -- these are concerns that you have but all we can say is that he is not looking to do that, he is really trying to stop -- this isn't an apartment. I am not making it into a sitting area, I am not going to make it into a working office and have those kind of luxurious things or whatever. I may stick a table up there, a desk that I can do paperwork at. He is not putting anything in there of that nature.

MR. COVELLI: All right counselor, I can follow up on the question counselor and say all right he is doing all of his work downstairs but yet he is upstairs to use the laboratory facility. So the question begs, if I am only storing upstairs, I am coming in, I am washing up, I am painting the bird house, I am building the dream furniture, I am doing all of those things downstairs but I have to walk upstairs to use the laboratory.

MR. BECKER: We talked about it. We could move the bathroom downstairs if that is --

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. BECKER: If that is not really -- I think it was just a matter of to have the slop sink there and the bathroom but he can move that downstairs, that is not really an issue. If that would help the Board out, we would move it downstairs.

MR. COVELLI: But counselor --

MR. BECKER: But I understand your concerns, don't get me -- we have gone through these discussions every one of us, I said this is what the Board is going to ask because it is a legitimate concern that every board has.

MR. LUDWIG: Especially with a separate door.

MR. COVELLI: Right.

MR. BECKER: Understood. A lot of garages have separate doors though.

MR. COVELLI: Right.

MR. BECKER: I mean that is not that unusual.

MR. LUDWIG: Well no but you got a man door going into the vestibule with a door to the garage. So it is a completely separate entrance.

MR. COVELLI: Right.

MR. LUDWIG: If that was in a one family house, they would consider that a two family house if you had a --

MR. CHAIRMAN: A vestibule like that.

MR. LUDWIG: A door inside of a door.

MR. COVELLI: Right, the real issue is the variance runs with the life of the property.

MR. BECKER: That's correct.

MR. COVELLI: Okay, it could be sold three times in the next three years and someone develops this into another dwelling unit.

MR. BECKER: Well they, obviously, they can't do that.

MR. COVELLI: That is the Board's concern.

MR. BECKER: But it is a policing thing which I know you are concerned about.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Obviously they can do with without anyone knowing.

MR. BECKER: Understood.

MR. COVELLI: The problem is, if the bathroom unit exists it is real easy to throw the rest of it in there.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. BECKER: Can we, if we put the bathroom, can we restructure that door?

MR. LUDWIG: How far of a walk is it to the house from there?

MR. BECKER: I mean it is a legitimate concern.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah.

MR. BECKER: We would like to -- we are willing to say hey maybe we can restructure it if it brings -- it is certainly not his intention to let someone come in after him, if that ever happened, and do it. So we could move the bathroom down --

MR. ABMA: Yeah, I am not attached to where the bathroom is.

MR. BECKER: -- and restructure the door.

MR. ABMA: The reason, the goal of putting the bathroom upstairs was just to give me more space downstairs. If I am working down there, it gives me a little bit more area to work. The bathroom downstairs, would just take up that space.

MR. COVELLI: I think I have already told you I am a fan of home improvement. I would love the garage you would be building. I am just saying to you that, in looking at it, how do I look at that and say to myself it is going to remain in perpetuity for what you are presenting to this Board this evening.

MR. ABMA: I understand your --

MR. COVELLI: And in doing my due diligence on this Board, how do I ensure the neighborhood that if the Adma's decide to move, which it is a free country, you can sell your house any time you would like.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. COVELLI: That we can somehow maintain that and using your counsel's words, in an effective manner of policing.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. COVELLI: It is difficult to police things once they are constructed.

MR. ABMA: Right, I understand that and I can appreciate that. I am an honest guy, I would never do that but I can't stop the next person from doing it. I guess you guys would have to decide if that is something you would permit or not. But, clearly, my intention is not to have that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I mean the other issue is if you made the base or the first floor area slightly larger you could reduce the upstairs.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: In other words, there are a lot of different ways to attack what you are trying to do.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, my goal to do this is to, basically -- you know -- we all have dreams, this is my dream to have a garage that looked like this. Where everything is placed, there was a reason to put it there. And whatever you guys are comfortable with, The Board of Adjustment, it is -- I'll be flexible because ultimately I need a garage. It would be great to have storage space. I am trying to make the character of the garage look like in fits in the area, adds value to the area because, as I drive through different towns, I see these structure that have been put up and it just looks like an eyesore. So I am trying to make something that is pleasing to the eye of my neighbors. It is Wanaque, a barn style garage, I thought fit well. There is one a couple blocks away. That is where we were coming from. And to have the luxury of having a bathroom in there -- you know -- as I am working in there it would be great, instead of trucking across the yard into the house, which I can do. It is just the convenience of having it in there would just be nice.

MR. LUDWIG: You testified earlier that you were going to raise the floor area. On the Site Plan, it says that you are only raising the finished floor three inches off of the existing grade, now you are changing that on the Site Plan?

MR. ABMA: That is a very good question I --

MR. LUDWIG: We at 98 and you are proposing 98.25.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. LUDWIG: So that is three inches over what is there.

MR. ABMA: Then what is existing. Yeah, I'll have to make a correction on that because I would like it to be at least the same grade as the rest of the property because there is some ups and downs to that property and I want to try to get all the bellies out of it as much as I can so that the water runoff is not going belly back there.

MR. LUDWIG: And the 96 finished ceiling height?

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. LUDWIG: I mean you are asking for an awful lot of variance in the height.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, I understand.

MR. LUDWIG: And yes there are other dwellings in the neighborhood but they are all from these pictures. They create a lot of houses next door.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that is the other thing.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, that is the question. What is the height of your house?

MR. ABMA: I don't know specifically. My first floor is a 10-foot ceiling; second floor is 8 foot and then the attic. I am going to guess probably about 35 feet.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The interior of the second floor, what are you doing with the ceiling, is it going to be open beam, you are sheet rocking the ceiling in there, what was your intention with that?

MR. ABMA: My intention with that and, again, it is going to be an insulated garage the ceiling I wanted to -- if it is going to have a ceiling in it, it is going to be framed out for a ceiling with drywall on top to keep it -- you know -- the heat down, whatever heat does get up there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. ABMA: So just to have those areas more insulated. Because like I said there is going to be a time in the future where, I don't need to do it right now, and that is why I am proposing just to do storage but to have it as a work space where I can put my desk up there, file cabinet up there, so I would like to have it remotely comfortable for me if I am up there doing paperwork.

MR. COVELLI: Are you proposing a second heating unit for the second floor or just the one on the first floor?

MR. ABMA: The one on the first floor, I hadn't made any decisions.

MR. COVELLI: Are you going to cut vents or -- there is not going to be any separate heating at all on the second floor?

MR. ABMA: I haven't worked through that detail yet.

MR. COVELLI: No heat in the bathroom?

MR. ABMA: The bathroom -- there is where the pipes were going to be, I wanted to put electric heat in.

MR. COVELLI: Electric.

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. COVELLI: Just in that area, that space. Nothing in the storage space.

MR. ABMA: Nothing in the storage space at this point.

MR. COVELLI: Electricity in the storage space, a reasonable amount of outlets?

MR. ABMA: Possibly, going into it I wasn't going to do any electric work up there. If it turns out to be an area where I am going to go up there and use it as a work space for doing paperwork, at that point I will probably, well I will go and get it passed for what I would like to do up there for that reason, which would be insulation and electric. I am a pretty straightforward guy and I know that a lot of my neighbors are here. To do this, I didn't realize the ripple effect it is going to have but I will say this, it is more important for me to have the height than it is to have the bathroom. So if that is going to be a stumbling block --

MR. BECKER: I think what he is saying, basically, is that he understands this concern that you have if someone else comes down the road. It is certainly not his intention to make an apartment out of it. So if that is something that the Board says listen having these utilities like that in there, you are worried about, it is a concern I agree, he really wants the space more than the bathroom. That shows -- I mean it is really not what he is after is to have a second apartment. He is looking for the storage space number one, maybe a work area. So the bathroom, if the Board has a problem with that because of a future owner of it, he is certainly willing to say get rid of the bathroom. I think he would still like a slop sink maybe.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, the only thing that I really would like is to have the slop sink.

MR. BECKER: Just for cleanup but he would get rid of it. Because really that is what he is after here is the space it is not really -- he certainly has no intention to have any kind of livable space there.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. HOFFMAN: I have another concern about noise more than anything.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: Just because it is so close to that other house.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. HOFFMAN: What is the noise ordinance in Wanaque roughly, does anyone know?

MR. FAASSE: The State.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I believe it is the state.

MR. FAASSE: State set with the decibels and everything.

MR. BECKER: That is a policing power -- you know -- if you were in violation of it.

MR. HOFFMAN: Well that is what I am -- well again, we are back to that policing issue.

MR. BECKER: Well I don't think that can get decided right here but, obviously, if he is in violation of it then, obviously, which I can't see would happen here, but that is another entity. I mean, the Board really can't make a decision on that.

MR. HOFFMAN: Well but if you have power tools, let's say, in the upstairs area and the way, just by looking at the elevations, that second floor is going to be fairly close, not too far from the grading next door.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum

MR. HOFFMAN: And I am concerned that if there is power tools on the second floor there may be a noise issue. Are you planning on putting any kind noise continuation product up or anything?

MR. ABMA: If it happens, on the first floor I was planning on insulating and sheet rocking that so -- you know -- that is as much of a noise barrier as I can give for that area. If I end up upstairs, doing anything up there, there would be insulation and sheet rock that goes up there for a noise barrier.

MR. HOFFMAN: In other words, no special noise whatever --

MR. ABMA: No, not as this point.

MR. FAASSE: Wait a second. Is your testimony now you are going use upstairs for assembling?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. BECKER: No.

MR. FAASSE: No it was just storage mostly, at most an office.

MR. ABMA: Right, right.

MR. FAASSE: You are not going to be operating tools upstairs.

MR. ABMA: No.

MR. FAASSE: No.

MR. ABMA: No, the first floor is the main area --

MR. FAASSE: That is what I thought, all right.

MR. ABMA: -- for all of that equipment.

MR. HOFFMAN: That is just a concern, I don't know, it just seems a little close to the other house.

MR. ABMA: I mean I am very -- for me, I am very sensitive to neighbors as far as noise is concerned because I know what it is like having noise -- you know -- after hours and stuff like that. So my cutoff time is usually around 9 o'clock when I stop making noises. If I am going to be working on something, it would be whatever the State Ordinance is for making noises.

MR. FAASSE: Do we have any other questions of Mr. Abma?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Gentlemen, any other questions on the applicant? Okay.

MR. GREGOR: The only thing, did you get a chance to see that aerial that I --

MR. BECKER: I did.

MR. GREGOR: The question I was asking was the proximity and I think someone tried to help you from the audience but I think, unfortunately, it was not the proper time to get the audience involved. My question was what is the approximate distance from the proposed garage to that addition, adjacent dwelling unit? If you can provide that testimony.

MR. ABMA: Would that be the --

MR. CHAIRMAN: It would be the structure to the northeast of your property.

MR. BECKER: It looks like there is two, the house and then there is a -- I don't know if it is garage back there?

MR. ABMA: The property with the carport is what you are asking?

MR. GREGOR: That seems to be the closest property I believe the other structure is a garage, isn't it, on the other side, or is that a house as well?

MR. ABMA: There is house.

MR. GREGOR: There is a house on the other side.

MR. ABMA: On the other side is a house.

MR. GREGOR: Well why don't we just -- have you provide the approximate dimension of each of the two dwelling units.

MR. ABMA: To the left of me, I am going to guess that it is approximately 15 to 20 feet from my property line to the house to the left of me.

MR. GREGOR: Okay.

MR. ABMA: From the property to the right of me, from my property line over to the actual house I am going to guess maybe 15 feet would be my guess.

MR. GREGOR: Okay. So you are roughly -- the structure is going to be approximately 25 feet since it is 10 feet from the property line from either of the two dwelling units.

MR. ABMA: Yeah, yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other questions gentlemen?

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Becker, what is next?

MR. BECKER: We don't have anymore direct testimony so unless there is more questions from the Board we can open it up to the public.

MR. FAASSE: Well we will open it up to the public first for questions of your client then we will give them the opportunity to make statements. All right, Mr. Chairman?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, let's do it that way.

MR. LUDWIG: Well one more thing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, go ahead Don.

MR. LUDWIG: Could you feasibly do this and bring the height of this building down in any way, shape or form and end up with what you want? Do you have to have this height?

MR. ABMA: I have flexibility with the height. I would be willing to bring it down. I don't know what the actual height footage would be until I lay it out on some paper. It is something that I would like to be able to stand in. Right now it has got -- it is proposed to have an 8 foot ceiling, I believe. And, as it stands right now, the corners as you are standing up there, the corners are getting cut down to 7 feet.

MR. LUDWIG: There are not too many people who stand taller than 7 foot.

MR. ABMA: So I could definitely bring it down lower in that essence.

MR. LUDWIG: And the first floor level at 9.6 that is something you --

MR. ABMA: I can bring that down to 9, I don't want to go less than that just because I am waving boards around and I am going to constantly be spackling sheetrock.

MR. LUDWIG: Just before we finished, I wanted to clarify that, okay.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. COVELLI: (Inaudible) he ended doing some things that helped us.

MR. FAASSE: That was a house addition.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That was the one by the duplex back behind Maple.

MR. FAASSE: We were afraid that they were going to have bedrooms and everything.

MR. COVELLI: Yes, we had the open sewer line and things.

MR. FAASSE: We dropped it and everything else like that so they wouldn't be promoting applicable space.

MR. COVELLI: Right, right, right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: See that's -- Member Covelli is bringing up a point from the past on another application What we did is, they lowered that second floor down to about 6 foot and an inch or two.

MR. ABMA: Um-hum.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So it was basically storage. You couldn't really create any usable --

MR. LUDWIG: Is totaled 7.6 for -- I forget what the percentage was.

MR. COVELLI: A usable living space.

MR. LUDWIG: Yeah.

MR. FAASSE: 7.6 it is.

MR. LUDWIG: You have to have a certain percentage over 7.6 --

MR. COVELLI: That is the bulk code right?

MR. LUDWIG: Bulk code, I forget exactly what the percentage is.

MR. FAASSE: Something like that, just 7 --

MR. LUDWIG: I thought it was 7.6.

MR. FAASSE: No, you might be right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This way that would sort of take the edge off making a living space out of it.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: In other words, your proposal has been the upstairs is basically storage.

MR. ABMA: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well then --

MR. FAASSE: Let's make it storage.

MR. CHAIRMAN: -- you can't put anything bigger than 6 foot tall upstairs. I mean -- you know -- look at it that way.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Create a 6 foot 4 ceiling, you can't get things up there, slide them around but you really can't have people living up there. It is going to restrict your office use a little bit maybe.

MR. COVELLI: You got to sit down all of the time.

MR. ABMA: I'm sorry.

MR. COVELLI: You'll have to sit down all of the time.

MR. ABMA: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: You are not 6 foot 6.

MR. ABMA: No, I'm 5 10 1/2 for the record.

MR. COVELLI: No, I'm kidding.

MR. BECKER: Get that half in.

MR. ABMA: The half is very important to me.

MR. BECKER: We are certainly opened to that because, again, it is your way. Storage -- you want to be able stand.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is your application. It was just a suggestion of how we dealt with this problem in past applications.

MR. FAASSE: The only problem is is that the Board can't tell you what you should ask for Mr. Becker. What we are saying is we want to go through with the public, hear what the concerns are, you may wish to ask to have this application carried so that you and your client and your professionals can study the issue and see if you want to change it before the next meeting or if you want to vote as it is presented.

MR. BECKER: Right, no I understand.

MR. FAASSE: All right, so at this point anyone from the public that has a question of Mr. Abma, just a question of Mr. Abma, you may do it as this time. Please do not give us any testimony, you will then be able to, when we open up the public, give testimony. If you give testimony, you will be placed under oath. If you ask a question, we would ask you to give your full name, spell your last name, your first name too if it is an uncommon one, and gives us an address but now is the time for questions.

MR. CISCO: All right, Cisco C-I-S-C-O, first name Joe.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please step up to the microphone, Sir.

MR. FAASSE: I'm sorry, yeah, we got to keep you on mic too. So what is your first name, Sir?

MR. CISCO: I'm coming up -- I'm coming up. Joseph Cisco, C-I-S-C-O.

MR. FAASSE: Address?

MR. CISCO: All right, I own Block 220, Lot 1, and co-owner on Block 220, Lot 1.02, that means I am surrounding Mr. Abma on two sides.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Could I see that aerial again?

MR. FAASSE: Surrounded by two sides.

MR. CHAIRMAN: He has got -- I don't have the survey, Bill has got it. He has got, this and this probably. He has to be fourth and here.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, okay. Your property would be to left and then to the rear.

MR. CISCO: To the rear and the left, that is correct.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, good.

MR. CISCO: Now note, facing -- facing his property from Furnace Avenue --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. CISCO: I am to the right and to the rear.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, the right and the rear.

MR. CISCO: I am the one who has -- I am the one who has the carport that everybody is concerned about.

MR. FAASSE: We got Lot E.

MR. LUDWIG: You are both on his right side.

MR. FAASSE: It is Lot E.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right but he is also --

MR. CISCO: No, no, get over on Stephens Avenue, that is 220, 102.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Okay. Questions only Sir.

MR. CISCO: All right, questions.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Your direct --

MR. CISCO: My question to him?

MR. FAASSE: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Counselor, Counselor --

MR. BECKER: Yes?

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are directing questions to the applicant, I'm sorry.

MR. CISCO: All right, they look like a nice young couple, that is what we were when I built my house. Did you know that was a residential zone when you moved in there?

MR. ABMA: Residential?

MR. CISCO: Yeah, did you know that?

MR. ABMA: Yeah.

MR. CISCO: How come we are going to go commercial now? A man setting up a shop, that means he is going commercial.

MR. BECKER: I don't know if there is a question but we are not proposing commercial here.

MR. CISCO: Well from testimony--

MR. BECKER: I don't know what the question is, but just for the record, we know it is residential we are not proposing anything that is not permitted in this zone. Garages, detached garages are permitted, in fact, are encouraged to garage a vehicle especially a commercial vehicle. He is not doing anything commercial here except doing what is in the ordinance, he is going to garage a commercial vehicle which is actually required under the ordinance.

MR. CISCO: Did I just understand testimony that came from him that he is going to be building things inside that garage? Did I understand that correctly?

MR. FAASSE: That is a fair question though.

MR. BECKER: What he is saying is that it is going to -- he would like to have some workspace there. People have workshops, they do work in their garage, he didn't say it was going to be -- as I said on the outset and what Mr. Abma has stated all along is that this is not -- he is not doing business out of there. Just like if I did at my house, I did some work in a workshop it is the same thing; you can do that. He is not doing work, it is not a functioning business out of this site. What he is doing there is all permitted under your ordinance, and it is permitted in this zone. It is a residential zone and everything we are proposing here is permitted under the ordinance.

MR. CISCO: Well I miss the point here someplace that he said he would be building specialty cabinets and that type of thing for his home improvement.

MR. BECKER: That is not necessarily not -- you can -- there is nothing in the ordinance that says you can't --

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Cisco in a minute you will be able to say anything you want about the application.

MR. CISCO: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Right now you are just limited to any questions you might have of Mr. Abma.

MR. CISCO: Well that was -- that was my question.

MR. FAASSE: You are okay, that's fair. Any other questions for him?

MR. CISCO: Not right now, no.

MR. FAASSE: Is there anyone else from the public that has a question for Mr. Abma?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please step up.

MR. FAASSE: Same rules apply to you.

MS. PORTER: I am going to ask him a question. Arlene Porter, 11 Fredericks Street --

MR. FAASSE: You didn't spell your last name though, see.

MS. PORTER: I don't know how.

MR. FAASSE: Just because we all know Walter Porter.

MS. PORTER: That is my father. P-O-R-T-E-R. You said that you needed the garage 28 whatever that measurement was for your truck to get in.

MR. ABMA: 28 feet deep, yeah.

MS. PORTER: Where is all this equipment going?

MR. ABMA: On the sides of the garage and on the back wall and, like I said, hopefully I will be able to have enough space to where I can put a bench on the back and then I could stuff underneath it and above it and to the left side of the garage, inside.

MS. PORTER: I don't think it is going to fit.

MR. FAASSE: We didn't hear that and probably better that we didn't.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Does anyone else have any questions of the applicant? Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Becker it is still really your case, do you rest?

MR. BECKER: Yeah, we rest. We put on all of our direct testimony, so if they want to make any comments, it is fine.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. I open it up to the public for statements on this application. Anyone want to make a statement on this application?

MR. CISCO: Statement, comments?

MR. FAASSE: Come up, anything you want to tell us.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Come up, now you can speak your peace.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

JOSEPH CISCO SWORN

MR. FAASSE: Do you have his full name, Mr. Cisco, and his address?

MS. MAROTTA: But I need his address. He gave me block and lot numbers.

MR. FAASSE: Oh yes, yes.

MR. CISCO: 15 Stephens Avenue

MS. MAROTTA: 15?

MR. CISCO: Stephens.

MR. FAASSE: That is in the Borough of Wanaque?

MR. CISCO: S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S

MR. FAASSE: All right, that is here in the Borough of Wanaque?

MR. CISCO: Yes Sir, for a couple of days.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. CISCO: Okay?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead Sir.

MR. CISCO: All right. Number one, he is talking about a bathroom or a slop sink or anything else, his property at the rear of his garage is going to be -- I would say approximately 2 1/2 to 3 feet below street level, that means that he will have to have a pump in there from the sewer system. That is for a start on it. His survey, accordingly to Boyce McGeoch who is now doing an entire block survey shows you that he is taking 3 feet of my property along side of his property and that under a contention right now.

MR. BECKER: I'm not aware of that. I mean we submitted a survey, a site plan -- actually I wouldn't even be before this Board anyway if there is a lot line discrepancy that is an issue between the two people and would ultimately, if they can't resolve it, go to the Superior Court of New Jersey. As far as I am concerned, that has been certified by the surveyor engineer and that is the survey and that is the site plan we are going with here today. So that is really not an issue before this Board, if there is a lot line discrepancy it should be brought to my attention, I would certainly would sit down and talk to them. If we can't resolve it, it still wouldn't lie with this Board or a decision of this Board.

MR. CISCO: All right.

MR. ABMA: Are you are saying that this is part of your fence that is in this setback area, the rear setback area?

MR. GREGOR: Let me ask a simple question if I may.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right.

MR. GREGOR: Mr. Cisco, do you have a signed and sealed survey which would conflict with this which might effect the site plan that you would like to present before the Board?

MR. JORDAN: I do.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, wait, you will get your turn.

MR. CISCO: I do, a couple of the other neighbors do also and as I said, it is going through litigation now. When they redid Fredericks Street they took our property markers out and Boyce McGeoch, who is a licensed surveyor, is now working on that. It is between the Borough and myself and a few other people.

MR. HOFFMAN: He is supposed to be dead.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Who.

MR. HOFFMAN: Buck McGeoch. I'm sorry someone had said that -- it was awhile back, Buck has been around awhile, someone told this Board he was dead and I called Buck and told him that he was dead.

MR. CISCO: If Buck is dead --

MR. HOFFMAN: He is not.

MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not.

MR. CISCO: I don't want to see his ghost across my property again which he was there three weeks ago.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, it is just --

MR. CISCO: He did my original survey in 1957 and when he was there three weeks ago found the original peg.

MR. GREGOR: My question is do you have anything that you wish to present to the Board to look at which may effect the site plan?

MR. CISCO: At the present time, no.

MR. GREGOR: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Do you intend to have a survey prepared in the next month?

MR. CISCO: Yes, Sir.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. On your survey there is a note about a discrepancy with this Frederick Street right-of-way line.

MR. FAASSE: You got a different lead for the dead versus the survey.

MR. BECKER: I'm sorry, say that again.

MR. FAASSE: You have a discrepancy or difference between the dead distance and the survey distance from your client's property to the Fredericks Street and also says surveyor has found evidence of discrepancy in established right-of-way line of Fredericks Street.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They are showing a difference of almost 10 feet, which is your document.

MR. BECKER: Understood.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. BECKER: But that is not really the issue that is here. I wouldn't be before the Board even if that was an issue.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well if it is -- if the property lines are in the wrong place we could be approving a garage on somebody else's property.

MR. BECKER: You are approving in accordance with the survey and the site plans here. If there is a discrepancy, I grant we need to get together and get it resolved but it wouldn't lie with this Board because it is not -- it is us to file, this isn't a deed. A lot line adjustment or a lot line agreement, if we can't resolve it then it goes to -- we have to go to court on it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. BECKER: All I am saying is, what we submitted here is from a surveyor site plan. I mean I am not a professional engineer, I am not a professional surveyor.

MR. LUDWIG: Why don't we have copies of that survey here?

MR. CHAIRMAN: All we require is two sealed copies. Gerri has got one; Bill has the other.

MR. BECKER: If this is an issue -- certainly if it is an issue they should bring it to my attention and we should resolve it in a lot line dispute. It still wouldn't lie with this Board though, that is what I am saying because that is not where an issue like that resides.

MR. FAASSE: The only reason the Board would be concerned is that your client had testified that he was locating his garage 10 feet from his property line.

MR. BECKER: Based on what we have here.

MR. FAASSE: Right. So it would be a problem if there was an error in the survey and maybe we can clean that up --

MR. BECKER: Exactly, if they brought it to me --

MR. FAASSE: -- because if they refer the site plan to the survey and everything.

MR. BECKER: If they brought it to me I would be more than happy to clear it up, that is not what I am saying but I am not aware of it until tonight, I am not aware of this litigation. Certainly, if they have their surveys, we should sit down and get that resolved. All I can say what we have presented is based on what a professional surveyor and engineer had provided to make that decision. If they bring it to me, certainly, we will come back here and try to get it resolved before we come back because, granted, if I know that I can't stand before you. All I can say if that I wasn't aware of this until tonight, it is not part of our application --

MR. FAASSE: We are not accusing you of being aware of it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, no, no.

MR. FAASSE: It came as a surprise to us too.

MR. BECKER: So all I am saying is if they have that they should bring it to my attention. It is really not with the Board here but certainly I have an obligation to either resolve it with them or we have to go to the right means to do it.

MR. FAASSE: This Board is most powerful. We can grant variances from the Borough Ordinances but we cannot grant you permission to build upon a neighbor's property.

MR. ABMA: That's correct.

MR. FAASSE: And that is what we would be concerned with that if the question came up.

MR. BECKER: As far as that is concerned you are not granting it on that.

MR. FAASSE: Right now you are absolutely right, Mr. Becker.

MR. BECKER: That is what I am saying, exactly.

MR. FAASE: But the public is coming forward saying ooh, there might be a question here.

MR. BECKER: Right.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MR. BECKER: But as far as this Board is concerned it is our property.

MR. FAASSE: Correct.

MR. LUDWIG: Well on the survey it does have a note that this may not be -- on his own survey.

MR. COVELLI: There is a note on your survey about this.

MR. BECKER: Understood that but that is not saying that it is not yours and that can resolved. There is a title -- there is a title insurance company standing behind it. There is a Deed and there are ways to solve it. It is not saying that the discrepancy -- all I am saying is that I am not aware of this.

MR. FAASSE: And we are not trying to solve the problem either, right now.

MR. BECKER: Right, that is all I am saying is that it can't be solved here right now and that is all I am saying.

MR. FAASSE: Okay. Mr. Cisco, is there anything else that you wish to tell the Board or testify to?

MR. CISCO: Yeah, well also as far as the driveway is concerned and everything else.

MR. FAASSE: The existing driveway or the proposed driveway?

MR. CISCO: The proposed driveway, all right, going around to the rear of the house. He is going around on the right side and going out across the back and as far as I can remember there were a couple of old cesspools out there and he is going to be coming in with a 254 loaded. I don't know if that would cause any problem or not. We did have a tragedy like that up at the end of Frederick Street several years ago when we lost a child on account of a cesspool caving in.

MR. FAASSE: We lost a what?

MR. CISCO: A child, we had a child fall into the cesspool and drown up there, the people didn't know it was there.

MR. BECKER: Cesspools are required to be filled in under current state law.

MR. CISCO: I'll grant you that -- I'll grant you that. The one cesspool was filled in when Mr. Pellington moved -- when there was a new sewer system but there were a couple of them back there.

MR. BECKER: I know things like that happen. I am just telling you -- if the cesspool is located --

MR. CISCO: This is a point -- you know -- I had a concern with, I got my grandkids around there and, hopefully, this doesn't bring any bad blood out between the neighbors but, at the same token, I would like not to see them have a child and have it happened to them.

MR. FAASSE: I think he should be warned by your word of caution here.

MR. CISCO: Well that and also on the left side of the house is an oil tank spill buried under the driveway.

MR. FAASSE: The house is heated by oil or gas?

MR. CISCO: It is now heated by gas.

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, I just wanted to check.

MR. CISCO: One more.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. CISCO: All right. He was talking about having a garage and an office over the garage and he also said he has an extra room up the attic which I know is there, that is a spot for an office also without going to the second floor of the garage.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anyone else? Please step forward.

MR. JORDAN: I own the property --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Give us a name, address.

MR. JORDAN: My name is Jim Jordan.

MR. FAASSE: J-O-R-D-A-N

MR. JORDAN: J-O-R-D-A-N, yes.

MR. FAASSE: And your address?

MR. JORDAN: I own 36 Furnace Avenue, Wanaque.

MR. FAASSE: You don't live there.

MR. JORDAN: No I reside at 10 Potterhaise (phonetic) Drive, Haskell.

MR. FAASSE: You have that?

MS. MAROTTA: Yeah.

JAMES JORDAN SWORN

MR. JORDAN: Unlike Mr. Abma, my dream of having a 24 foot barn next to me, is not my dream. And he has already encroached on my property and I obtained a survey from the previous owners of his property and he is proposing to put the driveway on the right side on my side of the house and he only has 9 foot clearance from the bay window to my property line. And like Mr. Cisco said, he took 3 feet of my property and he put up a fence, which is illegally on my property.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You are to -- looking at his house, you are to the right or left?

MR. JORDAN: On Furnace Avenue, I am to the right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. FAASSE: That is what Mr. Cisco said, he was to the right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I thought Mr. Cisco said he was to the right.

MR. COVELLI: No, no, no, Mr. Cisco is back here.

MR. JORDAN: Joe Cisco is in the rear of my property.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, he is back -- all right.

MR. JORDAN: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I misunderstood what he said, I'm sorry.

MR. LUDWIG: If you look where it says 1 foot 6, that is the property line.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah that is 1.02 he is.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. JORDAN: I have made plenty of copies.

MR. GREGOR: Can I see a copy?

MR. JORDAN: Sure. And that you can see, there is only 9 feet clearance from my property line.

MR. FAASSE: Do you have the certified one?

MR. CHAIRMAN: A sealed one.

MR. JORDAN: Well this is faxed from my --a

MR. FAASSE: That is not what I asked you.

MR. JORDAN: I need a certified?

MR. GREGOR: Do you have a signed and sealed survey?

MR. JORDAN: Not on this property no.

MR. GREGOR: In order for me to give any advice to the Board I would need to have a signed and sealed survey presented. Just so you know.

MR. JORDAN: Okay. And this is the survey that I have of my property and it shows that there is like 7.4 inches from my garage --

MR. GREGOR: Again, Mr. Jordan, in order for me to provide any advice to the Board, you would have to submit to the Board signed and sealed copies of any survey that you provide.

MR. JORDAN: Okay. Well this is the original survey of my property and he took 7 1/2 feet of my property and made it 3 1/2 feet.

MR. ABMA: I didn't do it on purpose.

MR. JORDAN: Well --

MR. BECKER: And, just for the record, my client hasn't done anything, he is just going off of a survey that was provided for that.

MR. JORDAN: I think it is my turn to talk.

MR. BECKER: Well I am objecting to --

MR. JORDAN: We listened to you all night, it is my turn.

MR. BECKER: I am objecting to your comments because they are inappropriate, my client hasn't done anything. He has submitted a survey.

MR. JORDAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: He is objecting to your characterization as to he is stealing the property.

MR. JORDAN: Okay. I didn't say he stole it.

MR. FAASSE: Well he took, all right.

MR. JORDAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Maybe I put the stole in, he had taken.

MR. JORDAN: Well he put a fence down my property.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This has different measurements than this survey but it is referenced from Deed to survey, there are different measurements on that block somewhere.

MR. FAASSE: Where is the other -- the third survey?

MR. GREGOR: By the way, these are -- what you are looking at are copies of the survey, none of these are signed or sealed.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: What is the third one?

MR. GREGOR: The third one is this one right here.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: His property.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, so first of all the second one that he gave us was --

MR. CHAIRMAN: The second one is the applicant's property.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, Napolitano and I am trying to find a date, May 19 --

MR. JORDAN: Napolitano was 2000, they were the previous owners of their house.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, this one is your property you are telling us now?

MR. GREGOR: His.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. JORDAN: Right, that is a different survey.

MR. FAASSE: And that is a 1955 survey?

MR. JORDAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: That is not sealed either right.

MR. GREGOR: No, that is what I said. Neither one of these are signed or sealed. So they are interesting but that is about it right now.

MR. LUDWIG: Are you in the process of getting the sealed copy of it?

MR. JORDAN: I didn't know the rules that it had to be sealed but if I have to go to the expense of doing it, I will.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: You understand why we can only accept signed and sealed surveys?

MR. JORDAN: I understand.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. GREGOR: And you are aware of that now?

MR. JORDAN: Yeah.

MR. GREGOR: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Cisco made a statement -- Mr. Cisco made a statement that McGeoch Engineering is realigning the lines of the block to see where the real lines are.

MR. JORDAN: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Which is taken into consideration on your survey, okay. So, obviously, there is some dispute there, which is going to affect everybody's property it seems.

MR. BECKER: Here is what I would suggest, if I may?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. HOFFMAN: Based on some of the discussion its had here tonight, we certainly are interested in maybe going back and having you carry this application anyway and going back and looking at maybe revising some things and not go to a vote tonight. One of the things that I am -- because all of this is news to me as well, unfortunately. I have no problem with sitting down and trying to rectify these lot lines, which is the way it should happen is that you go and you get the surveys done and if that is what you are suggesting by all means, that is the way we should do it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I think, the other side is, if the Borough is in the act of doing something, maybe you should find out what the Borough is doing --

MR. BECKER: Absolutely.

MR. CHAIRMAN: -- with these property lines because it is going to affect all of you.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Cisco said something about that. Is the Borough doing now with Buck McGeoch?

MR. CISCO: The last I understand is --

MR. COVELLI: Right, that was his testimony.

MR. CISCO: -- to widen Fredericks Street. It is the corner pegged from Mr. Abma's next door neighbor at the corner of Furnace and Fredericks and they also took the (inaudible) pegs out and mine.

MR. LUDWIG: They took all of them. I look at the other end of the street --

MR. BECKER: They won't draw the lot lines between the individual private owners.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well actually if you look at the --

MR. FAASSE: All right, we going -- we are making a lousy transcript here.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is very confusing here, okay.

MR. FAASSE: Do you have extra copies of this Sir?

MR. JORDAN: That is the -- yeah, I do.

MR. LUDWIG: Here is a photocopy of it.

MR. FAASSE: What is the clean out plastic cap, all of this other stuff in the back?

MR. JORDAN: The original owner was a fanatic on being precise and he made personal notes on the back.

MR. FAASSE: You ought to kept that.

MR. JORDAN: I want to keep this, yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't lose that.

MR. FAASSE: Did you give Mr. Becker one of these?

MR. JORDAN: I don't know --

MR. BECKER: I got the --

MR. COVELLI: No, he doesn't have one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You got both of them?

MR. FAASSE: You got the second one?

MR. BECKER: The Campbell and Rue licensed engineer land survey?

MR. FAASSE: The 55 one?

MR. BECKER: Yeah, I got that one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You know, why don't we make it simple, let's carry this thing --

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, no.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No?

MR. FAASSE: Let's hear if there is anybody else here so we can get all the issues --

MR. BECKER: Yeah, I agree with that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: But if we are going to beat this thing to death?

MR. FAASSE: No, we are not going to beat it to death tonight.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. JORDAN: I just have one other comment.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please stand by the microphone.

MR. JORDAN: I'm sorry.

MR. FAASSE: You got your Deed there, is that your Deed?

MR. JORDAN: Excuse me?

MR. FAASSE: Is that your Deed in your hand?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, that is the drawing he just showed us.

MR. JORDAN: That is the drawing.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, all right.

MR. JORDAN: I am like yourselves very very nervous about a garage and a workshop having all of those utilities; it makes no sense. We have been in -- I've been in that street for 50 years, Mr. Cisco is about the same, these people have been here six months and they want to change everything on us. Okay. We have no guarantee they are going to sell --

MR. FAASSE: Not sell.

MR. JORDAN: Correct, I am just -- I want you to be aware of our anxieties. We are life long residents and we don't want something to happen. I am very nervous on their proposals and that is all.

MR. FAASSE: Do you have any questions of this gentleman?

MR. BECKER: No, I don't.

MR. FAASSE: No, okay. Is there anyone else from the public that wishes to testify?

KATHLEEN BOTBYL SWORN

MS. BOTBYL: Kathleen Botbyl B-O-T-B-Y-L, 20 Fredericks Street.

MR. FAASSE: Representing -- you know -- you are related to the Mayor of Hawthorne, now.

MS. BOTBYL: Yes. That is my brother-in-law.

MR. COVELLI: What was the address again, I'm sorry?

MS. BOTBYL: 20 Fredericks Street.

MR. COVELLI: 20, thank you.

MS. BOTBYL: So from Furnace Avenue from Abma's on to the left rear.

MR. FAASSE: Left rear.

MR. LUDWIG: Top left corner.

MR. FAASSE: I thought we said that was Stephens?

MR. HOFFMAN: No, there is one more lot there in the corner.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Stephens is the street behind. She is on the side street.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. LUDWIG: I believe according to the chart it is Block 220, Lot 5.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: Stephens is on your right hand side, right?

MR. GREGOR: 220, Lot 5.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Lot 5, okay.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MS. BOTBYL: I don't want this. It is going to be an eyesore. I don't know where they are getting 10 feet off of my property because it is absolutely not. I do know where like Mr. Cisco's 3 feet and Mr. Jordan's 3 feet is coming, where theirs was lost, because they gave that to me.

MR. FAASSE: Who gave that to you, Mr. Cisco?

MS. BOTBYL: No, Abma's according to their survey. They are giving me an extra 3 feet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, boy.

MS. BOTBYL: But they are taking it away from --

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what they are showing us.

MS. BOTBYL: Now this proposal that they gave tonight, this garage is going to be like twice the size of my house and I don't want it.

MR. FAASSE: What side of your house?

MS. BOTBYL: Well we figured out, what maybe 18 feet -- maybe 18 feet. So not quite, but it is going to be an eyesore.

MR. FAASSE: In your opinion.

MS. BOTBYL: In my opinion.

MR. FAASSE: Did you look at the plans, the architecturals?

MS. BOTBYL: I saw them.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MS. BOTBYL: A beautiful barn, go to Sussex if you want a barn, we don't want -- I don't want it -- I don't want it. And you didn't know about all of this but your client did because I told him that the surveys were wrong.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Let's not go into that issue okay. Mr. Becker do you have any questions for this young lady?

MR. BECKER: Yeah, I do have a question. Have you raise this -- and I will go to the survey issue. Have you brought up the issue, have you done a new survey yourself recently?

MS. BOTBYL: No.

MR. BECKER: You haven't done a new survey yourself.

MS. BOTBYL: No.

MR. BECKER: Have you filed any action to adjust your lot lines?

MS. BOTBYL: No, this shouldn't cost me money. I don't want this garage.

MR. BECKER: It is just a question, have you?

MS. BOTBYL: I said no, I thought you heard me.

MR. BECKER: So what is your basis for why these surveys and lot lines are wrong?

MS. BOTBYL: From my original survey.

MR. BECKER: Do you have that here with you tonight?

MS. BOTBYL: No.

MR. FAASSE: Have old is your original survey?

MS. BOTBYL: It will be 9 years in July.

MR. BECKER: And you have matched that up with the survey that we have presented?

MS. BOTBYL: No, I didn't have your survey.

MR. BECKER: Thank you, I don't have any further questions.

MR. FAASSE: She couldn't of, we only got your survey tonight Mr. Becker.

MR. BECKER: Understood.

MS. BOTBYL: Yeah, I know.

MR. BECKER: She could have asked for it.

MS. BOTBYL: He is sly -- I could have? I never saw you until tonight.

MR. FAASSE: Don't please, please don't argue that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Keep it calm.

MR. FAASSE: Do you have anything else you want to tell us Madam?

MS. BOTBYL: No.

MR. FAASSE: I mean you are at liability to tell anything that is relevant. Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Would you advise that any survey (inaudible).

MR. FAASSE: We will.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: At the end.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I mean if she wants the survey?

MR. FAASSE: Is there anyone else from the public that wishes -- oh oh Mrs. Porter wants to come.

MS. PORTER: Oh I am coming back now.

MR. FAASSE: I shouldn't call you Mrs., I'm sorry. Ms. Porter.

MS. PORTER: Miss -- Ms.

MR. FAASSE: Ms.

MS. PORTER: Now he has got that, where he is going to build that thing, I don't want it here because it is going to block my house, it is going to tower over her house. This is going to be right in my face. Any other garage that is on there, like he said, the barn up the street, they are all offset off of people's -- nobody can see them unless you go up to their yard. They are set back off of the road and they are not in people's faces or in their backyards. We have an open neighborhood. We watch all the kids play in every single yard there. It is like a neighborhood watch, I can see everybody in Cisco's yard, I can see the kids over there in Jimmy's yard, past Jimmy's yard. I can see all over the neighborhood. He puts this up, we are not going to be able to watch.

MR. FAASSE: How tall is your house, how high is your house?

MS. PORTER: 24. And, not only that, because of that -- where he is putting that, that floods. When it rains it looks like a swimming pool. We could go over there and go swimming. So he is going to have to raise that up or something to get it -- and that is going to make it even higher than what he is saying it is going be. It is just going to ruin -- he thinks it looks nice; it is not going to look nice there, because we want it all open.

MR. FAASSE: You realize that he is at liberty to build a garage under the Borough Ordinance.

MS. PORTER: Yes, he can have a garage.

MR. FAASSE: Up to 15 feet.

MS. PORTER: But he can't have it that high.

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, would you hear me out Madam?

MS. PORTER: All right, 15 feet.

MR. FAASSE: Up to 15 feet.

MS. PORTER: 15 feet but then --

MR. FAASSE: If he were to build that house, would that obstruct your view as well?

MS. PORTER: No, I am a bi-level.

MR. FAASSE: No but what a 15 foot garage obstruct your view as well?

MS. PORTER: No, not where -- not 15 because it would be even with Kathy's.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MS. PORTER: You know -- it won't be over Kathy's.

MR. FAASSE: No, I am just trying to -- you know -- I haven't gone out and visited your property so I am just trying to visualize this.

MS. PORTER: You can come, we are 11 Fredericks Street.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MS. PORTER: Just knock, I will be home.

MR. CHAIRMAN: She said knock and I won't be home or I will be home?

MR. FAASSE: She will be home she says.

MS. PORTER: I will be.

KAREN CISCO SWORN

MR. FAASSE: Please give us your full name, spell your last name and an address.

MS. CISCO: My name is Karen Cisco C-I-S-C-O.

MR. FAASSE: Do you live with that other gentleman?

MS. CISCO: Sometimes, it depends if you are agreement with him.

MR. FAASSE: Okay. And what is the address?

MS. CISCO: 27 Fredericks Street.

MR. FAASSE: Same house.

MS. CISCO: No, no. I moved further than anyone else in my family. I am moved about 60 yards from my original house of birth. I am on Fredericks Street.

MR. FAASSE: What a trip -- what a trip.

MS. CISCO: Yeah, what can tell you, we are a very close knit family, neighborhood wise. The only reason I am standing here is to let you know that my mother, who lives at 15 Stephens Avenue also, is opposed to the height of the garage etcetera. She would be happy to be here, however, the Borough of Wanaque does not have access for quadriplegics to get into this room.

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, no, excuse me.

MS. CISCO: Go ahead.

MR. FAASSE: If she wants to be here, we will make the arrangements. Isn't that true, Gerri?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, we are supposed --

MS. CISCO: No, no, no, we would have to give advanced notice and everything.

MR. FAASSE: Oh yes, that is right.

MS. CISCO: That is correct -- that is correct.

MR. FAASSE: Yes, but we would make arrangements.

MS. CISCO: I'm sure you would but it very --

MR. FAASSE: We are in instructed that anyone that needs like even hearing assistance or anything else that we will provide it. So if your mother wants to come here and testify, the Borough will accommodate her.

MS. CISCO: I can well understand that.

MR. CISCO: You just don't want that to happen.

MR. FAASSE: I am not saying I do but we want to understand that even though this building might be a little bit challenging --

MS. CISCO: I may be a little bit opposed to some of neighbors by saying this but I like these people, they are very nice people.

MS. PORTER: We didn't say that we didn't like them.

MS. CISCO: Wait, I am just trying to get it through, I know you aren't --

MR. FAASSE: Order, you are out order. Thank you. I didn't do that in a long time, it felt good.

MS. CISCO: However --

MR. FAASSE: The last time it was a cup of coffee, I made him pay for it.

MS. CISCO: I just wanted to go on record as stating also, I live around the corner and as they said it is a neighborhood community and we welcome them to the neighborhood. However, I think that a two story building in that particular area is a little bit much for the neighborhood. The bedroom in which my niece sleeps in will probably be less than 25 feet, less than, to where he would be working with that power saw at 9 o'clock at night. And I don't mean any disrespect, but your child's bedroom would probably be what 50 to 60 feet from where your garage is? So that is a concern that I have as well. But until all the surveys and everything else come back it is a moot cause, I guess.

MR. FAASSE: Don't go away, Mr. Becker has the right to question you?

MR. BECKER: I don't have any question.

MR. FAASSE: Smart move.

MR. CISCO: Can I just add one more point?

MR. FAASSE: Can we have Mr. Cisco back for the third time Mr. Chairman?

MR. CHAIRMAN: The 3rd time, of course.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is an open meeting.

MR. CISCO: One point, he is talking about the barn design he wants to put there. All right, the ones that he looked at that was my wife's grandparents house, it was built in 1906, and it is a 4 car garage, there is no getting away from it. But it again, like Ms. Porter said, it is back off of the road about 35 - 40 feet. And the other one he looked at up on DeBow Avenue, that was built by the Andersons in the 1920's and, again, that is back off of the street; so it is totally out of sight unless you go and look at it. Then this is going to be right out there where you will see it from all three streets.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Counselor, questions?

MR. BECKER: No questions.

MR. FAASSE: He got the routine down better than us. Anyone else from the public?

MR. BECKER: See that counselor, practice makes perfect.

MR. FAASSE: I see that -- I see that.

MS. MAROTTA: Now you are really in trouble.

MR. FAASSE: It is a new year, we are only warming up.

MS. FARELLO: Marcia Farello, 14 Stephens Avenue.

MS. MAROTTA: Would you spell your last name?

MS. FARELLO: F-A-R-E-L-L-0.

MS. MAROTTA: And the address?

MS. FARELLO: 14 Stephens Avenue.

MS. MAROTTA: Okay, thank you.

MS. FARELLO: I live across the street from the Cisco family. When we moved here --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Got to swear her in counselor.

MARCIA FARELLO SWORN

MR. FAASSE: Okay, you can put your hand down now and you have the name and the address.

MS. FARELLO: I moved to this neighborhood 10 years ago after searching and searching all over for our family home. We moved into Wanaque because it is a bedroom community where I haven't seen anything but good changes in the last 30 to 40 years that I have passed through. I have lived in Haskell, so I do know this area. We were taken back because in our backyard we have lots of open space. Yes, there are barns, they are authentic barns, they are not reproduced massive going to be probably construction areas. I don't want to look out my window and have this block what used to be beautiful trees that are going to be taken down -- you know -- to make room for this. And, yeah, this is this man's property; this is our property too. If I go to ever sell our house or something like that, I don't want people to think that they are moving into an industrial area. It is going to be an eyesore. I feel that it will be too when it is bigger than the houses that it is going to be standing in front of. That is what I have to say about this.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Becker?

MR. BECKER: No questions.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

MR. FAASSE: Anyone else from the public that wishes to say something on this particular application? Mr. Chairman, I don’t see -

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please step forward.

MR. FAASSE: Oh.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Identify yourself.

MR. FAASSE: A little shy. Now, raise your right hand.

EDWARD FARELLO SWORN

MR. FAASSE: Give us your full name, spell your last name and an address.

MR. FARELLO: Edward Farello F-A-R-E-L-L-O. 14 Stephens Avenue.

MR. FAASSE: Didn't she spell it with an E.

MR. FARELLO: No, she spells it right, I was wrong.

MR. CHAIRMAN: She spells it the same way.

MR. FARELLO: I hope so.

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MR. FARELLO: Okay, like my wife was just saying, we moved into this area 10 years ago and it is a beautiful area. Now what you proposed is going to turn, and I know he says it is not commercial, but it is going to be commercial. It has a commercial look and he says like he is not going to be putting in any apartments there could he guarantee -- can you guarantee it?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

MR. FARELLO: Yeah, you put it in writing that we are not going to do anything like that, be like a grandfather type of law.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yup.

MR. FARELLO: That no apartments will ever be there, excuse me I have a cold. That no apartments will ever be there, ever and that can go down as like a town law. Can it be done, I am asking you?

MR. FAASSE: There is always a problem with enforcement.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Enforcement.

MR. FAASSE: You know, we can always condition on any kind of grant of approval on the fact that --

MR. FARELLO: Yeah, like it is approved.

MR. FAASSE: -- it would not be used for living space.

MR. FARELLO: If it is approved, it can't ever --

MR. FAASSE: We can, as somebody said, by dropping the ceiling down. But you know it is like anything else people go around and violate laws. Otherwise we wouldn't have police and law enforcement officials.

MR. FARELLO: But that is what they have inspectors for to go and ensure -- they are not -- I mean bought a pool and we had to go by the books.

MR. FAASSE: Absolutely.

MR. FARELLO: Every little bit we had to go by the books. We can't do this, we can't do that and people come around and check. Well the same thing should apply, no?

MR. FAASSE: Unfortunately, though, once the work is done, the ability of a town to get into a building unless this person comes in and applies for a permit is very limited.

MR. FARELLO: Yeah, but I also have heard of people who have done things that they shouldn't have and the town comes in and says take it down.

MR. FAASSE: If they find out then you are right.

MR. LUDWIG: Inside you can do just about anything and the town can possibly miss it.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

MR. FARELLO: I know this gentleman has just as much right to have it up as we have not to want to see it but if he is going into other peoples' properties or if it is effecting other people waking up kids or whatever then there has to be a stop to that.

MR. FAASSE: Is there anything else you want to say.

MR. FARELLO: No, I am sorry to waste your time.

MR. FAASSE: No, you are not wasting our time. Mr. Becker do you have any questions?

MR. BECKER: No, I do not.

MR. FAASSE: Please Sir, do not consider that a waste of our time, that is why we are here.

MR. HOFFMAN: We get paid very well to sit here and listen to you.

MR. FAASSE: Zero, he is only kidding.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We get zero. Doubled every year.

MR. FAASSE: Is there anyone else from the public that has anything to say on this application. Otherwise, Mr. Chairman, it would be in order to close the public portion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That's it.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, public portion. Now Mr. Becker --

MR. CHAIRMAN: No one else wants to step up.

MR. FARELLO: Thank you for your time.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Becker do you have something else that --

MR. BECKER: My client would just like to make a comment if the Board would allow.

MR. FAASSE: Absolutely -- you know -- this is America.

MR. ABMA: On behalf of me and my wife and our child, I haven't had a chance to meet all of you. Some of you I have, I'm sorry we are meeting under these circumstances. As far as the property lines are concerned, I want to get them resolved as much as you do. I came into this property under the understanding with the licensed guide trusting him that he was going to do his job correctly. As I have been living there, I know Kathy has mentioned something. I had asked her for their survey so that we could compare it and, at that time, they didn't have it and then the property to the right of me, 36 Furnace is it -- I apologize the fence is not, it is not a fence it is just a temporary peg with a string on it. I just wanted to put down some lines because we have a dog and we are trying to train him to stay in our property.

MR. JORDAN: That fence isn't going to hold that dog.

MR. ABMA: Well it is true, it is not.

MR. JORDAN: And could I --

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, no, there is no dialogue back and forth. I think we are going a little further then this hearing Mr. Becker. Do you really want all of this on the record?

MR. BECKER: No, I don't want all of that. He just wanted to make some comments.

MR. FAASSE: Well I think he has the opportunity to make all of these comments outside -- you know --

MR. BECKER: I agree with you.

MR. FAASSE: I just don't think it would be wise for the applicant to put all of this on the record. Okay, is that as far as we are going to go tonight, Mr. Becker?

MR. BECKER: That is as far. What I would suggest to the Board is that we carry the application. I think we are going to step back and maybe look to make some revisions based on what comments we heard from the Board, the professionals and maybe even more so from the neighbors. What I would like to suggest, since there is an issue, and to me it was the first time that I heard of the lot line, and apologize if I seemed abrupt but it was just -- I wanted to make it clear that it was not something I was aware of and I don't think the Board could answer it here but I would like to get it resolved because now that they know it, they probably can't -- they aren't going to make that decision. We need to get together. So what I would suggest is that you either contact me or get your attorney, it doesn't have to be it, it can be you. It is just get in touch with me so that we can resolved these lot lines so that when we come to the Board you know that there is no disputes in the lot lines and that would be my suggestion.

MR. FAASSE: Now, I want to make an announcement here too. His suggestion is very good because you do have very valuable property rights out there and if there is a discrepancy in the survey and the lot lines, you might want to get it resolved once and for all. Mr. Becker's office, if you don't know, it is in the Borough of Hawthorne, right on 208. I don't know the number off the top of my head.

MR. BECKER: 1600 Route 208.

MR. FAASSE: What is the telephone number?

MR. BECKER: Oh 973-423-0100.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, if you expect this Board to consider any of those surveys that you talked about, you are going to have to provide sealed copies of those surveys and it would be to your own advantage to make sure that it is not a 1955 survey that it is something a little bit more recent.

MR. JORDAN: That is what I was going to ask you. If I have the 1955, that is not adequate?

MR. FAASSE: I would seriously question the 55 survey.

MS. PORTER: According to the County of Passaic it is.

MR. BECKER: I don't think they will certify it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Cisco brought up a point that the Borough is trying to resolve this realign Fredericks Avenue problem.

MR. CISCO: And also my property was Deeded in 1956.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. CISCO: And that is my original and that has the standard (inaudible) and nobody else has owned it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well let's find this out. We will have our Board Engineer check with the Borough Engineer and see if the Borough is actually doing --

MR. FAASSE: Doing something.

MR. CHAIRMAN: -- some homework on that problem on Fredericks and how it affects all of your properties. Okay. If they are going to change whatever they are going to change or correct some lot lines then the Borough has jurisdiction on that right Ralph, as far as aligning that or how do they do that?

MR. FAASSE: They can't change the lot lines.

MR. GREGOR: They can't change lot lines, that is going to be between the property owners and the surveyors.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well now what are you calling, investigative --

MR. GREGOR: What they are probably doing is probably some road improvements and in order to do so they need to establish where the lot lines are and if they found a conflict or it appears that I have this evening, that there is a conflict and they are trying to investigate it to resolve it. I will talk to the Borough Engineer see what I can find out.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right.

MR. JORDAN: Should -- can I ask one question? Should we, before we spend any money, we are all working class people, should we wait until the town does? I mean $500 for a surveyor may not be a lot of money to you people --

MR. GREGOR: Right, well that is where I am heading with this.

MR. JORDAN: -- but it is a lot to us.

MR. GREGOR: If the Borough is going to --

MR. JORDAN: Am I right or wrong?

MR. FAASSE: Sir, but what I have told many people in your situation, you have very valuable property rights and that $500 might be well spent to protect those rights.

MR. JORDAN: So don't wait for the town --

MR. FAASSE: Do not -- I am just saying, do not expect others to protect your property rights, you have to be prepared to do it yourself.

MR. JORDAN: Okay, I respect -- I appreciate your intervention.

MR. FAASSE: So I am just -- I am just telling you that.

MR. JORDAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: I mean we are not going to go out there and survey. The only thing we are going to be concerned with, Mr. Becker is right to a certain extent, is that we are not concerned with all of these lot lines and anything else so long as we don't allow -- if they allow the garage we are don't allow it in this decision, which is in the violation of the Borough Ordinances.

MR. JORDAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: And I think, if I am not mistaken Bill, and accessory building, such as this could be closer to the lot lines he is proposing,

MR. GREGOR: Yes, they can be within 5 feet of the property line.

MR. FAASSE: They can be within 5 feet see so we have a play there.

MR. JORDAN: Yeah, and -- you know -- I don't want see him put a tarred driveway in if he is going to have to tear it up and he will have to tear it up if it is my property.

MR. FAASSE: That is why I think Mr. Becker has invited you all to communicate with him so that it is resolved to everyone mutually satisfaction, hopefully.

MR. GREGOR: Before anyone leaves, I would just like to make a comment, counselor, that the lot line issue is actually an independent issue to the application. In other words, whether this application is here or not that issue, it would appear, it needs to be resolved.

MR. BECKER: I agree with that, I am not disputing -- you are absolutely right. That is why I am suggesting that we sit down --

MR. GREGOR: So I think it is everyone's best interest --

MR. BECKER: -- and my only suggesting to them of a lawyer just to protect their interests. I have no problem talking to them directly. I just didn't want them to -- as your lawyer said, they have to take care of their own property rights. That is all I am concerned about.

MR. LUDWIG: If a number of people in the same block ask for surveys to be done by somebody would it possibly be cheaper for them to just do them in mass?

MR. FAASSE: Oh yeah, absolutely.

MR. GREGOR: If one surveyor is hired to do numerous surveys --

MR. LUDWIG: I would think it would --

MR. GREGOR: -- it would probably provide them with a reduced rate since he is --

MR. LUDWIG: Already there.

MR. GREGOR: If there is a common property line between two properties is the same line, it makes it a lot easier to do. But that's -- I'll leave that to the people to decide.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is up to them. It is up to the individual surveyor.

MR. FAASSE: You know, don't leave without hearing when we are going to carry this too.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, now --

MR. FAASSE: This is your notice -- you will not --

MS. PORTER: I'll relate. They are all related to me one way or another, I'll relate it to them.

MR. FAASSE: All right. Based on the application and the request of the applicant the motion would be to carry this to our next meeting which is February 1, you said right?

MR. GREGOR: One.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Would that give you enough time to change --

MR. FAASSE: Well if it doesn't --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well then you just carry it.

MR. BECKER: Well if it doesn't, I'll get a hold of your attorney or Board. I am going to try and get this thing resolved.

MR. FAASSE: Any new plans to be filed on behalf of the applicant, any surveys to be filed by any of the property owners must be in here, the Borough Hall, in Gerri's possession 10 days prior to the meeting. If there is any problem, we will deal with that on the first. Oh yes, and send them to Mr. Gregor.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They have got your address. Any new plans, send a set directly to Bill.

MR. BECKER: I'll make sure it comes to the Board.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Otherwise we lose time between --

MR. FAASSE: All right.

MR. LUDWIG: Member Ludwig makes a motion to carry it to the February 1st meeting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. We need a second on that?

MR. COVELLI: Second.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Roll call.

MOTION TO CARRY THE APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 1ST MEETING

Made by Member Ludwig, Second by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. BECKER: Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Okay, we are going to take a five-minute recess.

MS. MAROTTA: I'm out of here.

MR. FAASSE: Are you out of here?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Gerri.

MR. FAASSE: So we are going to have Resolutions and Vouchers.

RECESS

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let the record reflect that every one is present.

MR. FAASSE: Public discussion Mr. Chairman.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That was here before our break except our secretary who left due to illness. Public Discussion. Seeing and hearing none, we close the public discussion. Resolutions, we should have two.

MR. FAASSE: We have three Mr. Chairman.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Three, okay.

MR. FAASSE: And I have to tell you that two of them I prepared without minutes and I apologize if they are not accurate, so you are going to have to correct them. Unfortunately our new members aren't going to know what we are talking about here.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

RESOLUTIONS

MR. FAASSE: But this is on -- the first one is on 09-05, First Apple Reality LLC. Whereas First Apple Reality has applied to the Zoning Board of Adjustment of Borough of Wanaque by way of an application for development for a Site Plan Approval, a Use Variance and Bulk Variances for land and premises commonly known as 744 Ringwood Avenue in the Borough of Wanaque, more particularly known as Lots 3 and 6 and Block 245 on the Borough Tax Maps. And whereas the Board of Adjustment having conducted a public hearing on said application on July 6, 2005, October 5, 2005 and November 2, 2005 at which time the Board heard the testimony in support of the application, reviewed the documentation submitted by the applicant and the Board having opened the meeting to the public and having considered all of evidence so adduced makes the following findings of fact and conclusions of law: 1) The lands and premises, the subject of the within application, are located in a B Zone and are presently improved with nonconforming structures and uses. The lands and premises are located at the intersection of Ringwood Avenue and Highland Avenue directly opposite the gate to the Wanaque Reservoir. 2) During the hearing, the applicant was represented by Brian Keane of Hartman and Finicky P.C. with offices at West 115 Century Road, Paramus, New Jersey. During hearings, testimony was adduced by Michael P. Carroll, a licensed professional engineer from the firm of Schwanewede Hals Engineering, professional engineers and land surveyors with offices at 9 Post Road, Oakland, New Jersey, which office prepared the plans utilized in support of the within application and several lay persons including Ms. Chris Zisser (phonetic) a member of the applicant, David Schmell (phonetic), owner of David Schmell Construction, which would be the builder for the project and Robert Scott the manager of the principal business which is J.K. Seamless Gutters, which operates from the site and for which the new building is being proposed. 3) The applicant proposes to remove a 1 and 1/2 story warehouse which is located partially on adjacent lands and replace it with a 2 story, 30 by 90 foot warehouse building. The new building would be located 2.6 from the rear property line. 4) Presently located on the property, in addition to the seamless gutter business, are an apartment and the office of an electrical contractor. 5) As proposed, this application for development in addition to site plan approval required numerous variances from the requirements of the Borough Ordinances. A Use Variance is required to permit the expansion of an existing nonconforming use, a rear yard setback variance for the location of the new warehouse building of 22.4 feet, as the applicant proposed locating the same 2.6 feet from the rear lot line where 25 is required. A variance for parking spaces, as the applicant proposes 26 spaces where 36 are required under the Borough Ordinances and a variance to permit parking spaces of 9 by 18 rather than 10 by 20 as specified by Borough Ordinances. 6) During the hearings, the Board considered, among other items and matters, the specific location of the land and premises, proposed improvements to be made to the intersection of Highland and Ringwood Avenues, including the necessity for an easement over the applicant's property in order to complete the proposed improvements, the proposed traffic flow on the site, including provisions for deliveries by trucks, the proximity of the site to a running body of water, reports prepared by the Board's Engineer with respect to this application on the days of June 26, 2005 and November 2, 2005 and the testimony adduced during the hearings. 7) During the hearings it was noted that the lands and premises in this application might be within the jurisdiction of the Highlands Preservation Act, although the applicant contends that the site falls outside the preservation area, and the State Department of Environmental Protection, due to the existence of the running body of water. The application is definitely subject to the jurisdiction of Passaic County since Ringwood Avenue is a county road. 8) The Board is of the opinion that approval can be granted of the revised site plan with the conditions and modifications required by the Board during the hearings, as the same will provide a more efficient and safer site. Further, the Board is of the opinion that the applicant has displayed sufficient hardship with the granting of the requested Bulk Variance and special reasons for the Use Variance required for this application and that the same can be granted without detriment to the public good and welfare and would not substantially impair the intent and purposes of the Borough Zoning Plan and Scheme, especially, considering the conditions added to the grant hereof. Now, therefore, be resolved by the Board of Adjustment of the Borough of Wanaque on this 4th day of January, 2006 that the within application for Site Plan Approval and Variances being is hereby granted subject to the following. 1) That prior to the issuance of any building permit, the applicant shall file revised engineering plans to include the changes, amendments and/or modifications as discussed for review by the Board's Engineer and the Board. These revised plans shall incorporate all comments made during the hearings including but not limited to changes in lighting fixtures as per testimony to add the additional foot candles which would also include the additional fixtures by the three tenant spaces, removal of all existing site signage, provide the drainage calculations to the Board's Engineer's requirements, the inclusion on the plans of the specifics as to the easement granted to the Borough for the intersection improvements, additional landscaping on the Highland Avenue side of the property and the provision for an additional 10 parking spaces should the same be required by the Borough in the future. 2) The applicant shall prepare and convey, at its own cost and expense, the appropriate Deed of Easement to the Borough as required for the intersection improvements. 3) This approval is specifically conditioned upon such approvals as may be necessary from the County of Passaic, State Department of Environmental Protection and the Highlands Preservation Council. 4) That all construction work to be performed in accordance with the revised plans, documentation, testimony utilized in support of this application. 5) That all construction work be performed in accordance with all the remaining Borough, County and State Building Codes and Regulations. 6) This approval is conditioned upon the applicant paying all professional fees incurred by this Board and the Borough in conjunction with this application, its review, approval and enforcement. That is the proposed resolution Mr. Chairman, only those who were here and voted in the affirmative on it may participate in the voting resolution.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll make the motion to approve.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Ludwig makes the motion to approve.

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, now, Mr. Gregor you agree with that, the variances?

MR. GREGOR: It looks great to me.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Roll Call.

MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Hoffman. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, and that is all that can vote on this.

MR. FAASSE: Yes, the other members were not here.

MR. HOFFMAN: Very nice job, Ralph.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That was a tough one.

MR. HOFFMAN: Particularly if you said you did that without --

MR. FAASSE: No, no, no, that one I did with.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That one had the -- the minutes are here.

MR. FAASSE: That is why I waited a month, that was November.

MR. HOFFMAN: Okay, well nonetheless it was good work.

MR. FAASSE: Thank you. These are the two that were done without and I think we made a mistake on the Dowson one but I kind of fudged it a little bit.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Gentlemen, that was the longest resolution. We are not usually that long.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Dowson.

MR. FAASSE: Whereas George Dowson and Lynn Dowson have applied to the Zoning Board of Adjustment of the Borough of Wanaque for permission to construct a one story addition and deck onto an existing dwelling located on lands and premises commonly known as 21 Stephens Lake Road in the Borough of Wanaque and more particularly known as Lot 21 and Block 200 on the Borough Tax Maps. And whereas the Board of Adjustment having conducted a public hearing on said application on September 7, 2005 and December 7, 2005, at which time the Board heard the testimony in support of the application and reviewed the documentation submitted by the applicants and the Board having opened the meeting to the public and having considered all of the evidence so adduced makes the following findings of fact and conclusions of law: 1) The lands and premises, the subject of the within application, are located in a R40 Zone and are presently approved with a nonconforming structure and a nonconforming lot. That is a big zone there. 2) During the hearing in addition to the testimony from the applicant, George Dowson, testimony was adduced from a representative of the applicant's patio manufacturer, M.T. Mullholland of Patio Enclosures Inc. 3) The applicants seek permission to construct a one-story 17 by 20 foot addition and a 11.5 foot by 25 foot deck to the side of the existing structure. 4) During the hearing considerable testimony was adduced and discussion had with respect to the need for the construction and the required variances and the fact that the lands and premises fall within the recently created Highlands Preservation Area. Testimony adduced on behalf of the application indicates that the applicants have secured a waiver from the Highlands Council for their proposed construction. 5) During the application process, the Board did grant certain waivers to the applicants with respect to requirements for a site plan. 6) As finally presented to the Board, this application for development requires two bulk variances. A front yard setback variance of 14 feet, as the proposed construction would be 44 feet from the front property line where 60 is required and a rear yard setback of 52.42 feet as, and here is where I think we made a mistake, as the existing structure is 2.58 from the rear property line where 55 feet is required. And then I got the proposed addition and deck would be somewhat further from the rear property line. I don't want to provide that.

MR. GREGOR: To be that close.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, but we used his table and his table was with the house.

MR. CHAIRMAN: With the house he took it --

MR. FAASSE: And that is what we used so it is probably in our minutes, so that is why I covered it this way.

MR. GREGOR: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Okay because he is going to move the addition and the deck back, I think it was like an extra 3 feet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah.

MR. FAASSE: It would have been like 5 feet. So I covered it this way. 7) The Board is of the opinion that the applicants have displayed sufficient hardship for the grant of the requested variance and the same can be can granted without detriment to the public good and welfare and not substantially impair the intent and purposes of the Borough Zoning Plan and Scheme. Now therefore be it resolved by the Board of Adjustment of the Borough of Wanaque on this 4th day of January 2006, that the within application to construct a one story addition and deck to the side of the existing structure be and is hereby granted subject to the following: 1) That prior to the issuance of any building permit, the applicant shall display sufficient proof that the Highlands Preservation Council has no objection to the proposed construction. Failing such proof, the applicants are bound to comply with the provisions of the Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act. 2) That all construction work be performed in accordance with the revised plans, documentations, testimony utilized in support of this application and 3) that all construction work be performed in accordance with all the remaining Borough County and State Building Codes and Regulations. 4) This approval is conditioned upon the applicants paying all professional fees incurred by this Board and the Borough in conjunction with this application, its review, approval and enforcement. That is the proposed Resolution, Mr. Chairman.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. You agree Bill?

MR. GREGOR: Yeah, the only thing I saw was the spelling of application in Items #6.

MR. FAASSE: Oh my goodness, oh yeah.

MR. COVELLI: Typo

MR. CHAIRMAN: Typo

MR. FAASSE: I put an e in instead of an i, right? I made it applecation.

MR. GREGOR: Julliard School of English.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, what did you say?

MR. GREGOR: Julliard School of English.

MR. FAASSE: I know, I know.

MR. COVELLI: When an engineer finds a spelling error you are in --

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are in bad shape.

MR. LUDWIG: What happened to spell check?

MR. COVELLI: We got to take note of that.

MR. FAASSE: You know, I don't know, that is what makes me wonder. It must be -- you know -- it must be a word.

MR. COVELLI: Somebody is getting a chewing tomorrow.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: There you go.

MR. FAASSE: No, that's my fault, I proof them.

MR. LUDWIG: Motion to approve.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: With the correction.

MR. COVELLI: Second.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Roll Call.

MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And the other members are not qualified.

MR. FAASSE: No, but we should mention to the other members while we take a little bit of a break here, Mr. Chairman --

MR. CHAIRMAN: What did you want to mention?

MR. FAASSE: No, for certainly the Donus Application we started that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: You gentlemen are now qualified to vote on that provided you listened to the tape -- well that is a CD now.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, I already mentioned that to Gerri, she is going to be in contact with you.

MR. FAASSE: She could maybe even burn you a copy, you can -- you know -- throw it in your own personal --

UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Is that what it was -- I was trying to read the minutes from a couple months ago and --

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: -- it kept on referring to the tape, to the tape.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, all of our meetings are --

MR. CHAIRMAN: It used to be a tape, now it is a disc.

MR. FAASSE: What is it a DVD, what do they call that?

MR. CHAIRMAN: CD

MR. FAASSE: CD.

MR. COVELLI: Well they used to use tapes, now they use DVD's. Audio is CD Ralph, video is DVD.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Wanaque finally advanced to the modern age.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, video is DVD.

MR. COVELLI: Oh, I'm sorry, CD.

MR. FAASSE: So, if you listened to the tape, we'll call it a tape because that is what is says, you then certify that you listened to it and then you would be able to vote in the application.

MR. LUDWIG: And you actually don't have to listen to the whole meeting you just have to listen to --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Just that particular application.

MR. LUDWIG: -- that application.

MR. FAASSE: And we would encourage you because -- is that a Use Variance?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

MR. GREGOR: Yes, it is.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a nonconforming use.

MR. FAASSE: Right, it is a Use Variance so with Use Variances they have to have 5 affirmative votes out of 7.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We need.

MR. FAASSE: So the applicant would always prefer to have 7 persons to be able to vote. Well Bruce is always very faithful --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: -- so then --

MR. CHAIRMAN: And Ted is never here so we are going need the full time member and one of the alternates at least to listen to the tape so we can throw out 7 voting members to them.

MR. FAASSE: I think that is the only one that we really --

MR. GREGOR: On Santoro did we ever --

MR. FAASSE: No, we never started Santoro.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We just had the attorney brief it and his notice was screwed up.

MR. GREGOR: Which one was this?

MR. FAASSE: It is David Donus.

MR. GREGOR: This is Donus.

MR. FAASSE: 1019 Ringwood. I think it was pretty much the only thing we heard last month.

MR. GREGOR: Right, Di Laura was doing that wasn't it?

MR. FAASSE: No, we did do them.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We didn't start this.

MR. FAASSE: No, we didn't start any of them.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And we didn't start this.

MR. FAASSE: The only ones that we did was we finished up Dowson and we finished up North Jersey Partners last month.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, right.

MR. GREGOR: Jack, also did you ask Gerri to get the new members a copy of my previous reports on Donus, they don't have it?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, well I told Gerri that we got to put full packets together.

MR. GREGOR: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: We have to be a little ginger with Gerri because first she had the problem with her hand, now she has the problem with her neck.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And she has got 800 building certificates in her deal with Polti. So the Building Department has a major problem with now.

MR. FAASSE: She accommodated us.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They moved some people in, they had closings.

MR. HOFFMAN: Yeah they opened -- they closed -- they went in on Tuesday.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah.

MR. FAASSE: She accommodated us by coming in tonight.

MR. HOFFMAN: I mean last week.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Jeff has been living there trying to get the CO's ready for them.

MR. HOFFMAN: Is that why they had the police there at the school?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, now there is residence -- right, they have a policeman because of the lack of the traffic light.

MR. FAASSE: I am just wondering?

MR. CHAIRMAN: What? I asked her to get both --

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, no, no, no.

MR. CHAIRMAN: What?

MR. FAASSE: Because we were having a verbatim minutes done. I don't know if they would qualify for the certification that I just mentioned.

MR. LUDWIG: I drove through there, there is no garages for any of those vehicles.

MR. COVELLI: Why not?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, I don't know.

MR. HOFFMAN: It is like, the bottom level is garages.

MR. FAASSE: It depends on who worried you are.

MR. HOFFMAN: I haven't been back there in about three months so it has probably changed a lot.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is the first stenographers take plus she is not identifying half of these talks. So, yeah, it is kind of vague.

MR. COVELLI: That is an understatement.

MR. FAASSE: I told Gerri that I miss her minutes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-him.

MR. GREGOR: We have 40 plus units that have closed already.

MR. LUDWIG: It is just one building though.

MR. GREGOR: Yes, Building 8.

MR. HOFFMAN: They are right across the -- they are right there. The buildings are right -- I drove back there the other day. I looked -- I couldn't imagine that they are built that close to the sewer plant.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Sewer plant, oh yeah, they could shake hands with the outbreakers.

MR. LUDWIG: Ionic breeze air fresheners for every unit.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah.

MR. FAASSE: Watch what you say about the Planning Board's work though.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You got it.

MR. FAASSE: They are very jealous of the great jobs they do.

MR. COVELLI: I can't see spending $300,000 for a panoramic view of the septic tank.

MR. HOFFMAN: You get the back view of the mountain.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The first building they sold out as soon as they advertised it. It is amazing.

MR. COVELLI: You have the wrong window unit, you are looking right at the tanks. I work at those tanks, I know what they are like.

MR. GREGOR: Ralph you have one more to read?

MR. FAASSE: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Somebody resold one already.

MR. COVELLI: Really.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is listed in a real estate transaction. Somebody make 50 grand over night. Okay, let's move on.

MR. FAASSE: Okay. We have North Jersey Partners.

MR. CHAIRMAN: 18-05.

MR. FAASSE: This is 18-05. Whereas North Jersey LLC has applied to the Zoning Board of Adjustment of the Borough of Wanaque for permission to subdivide existing nonconforming lots with nonconforming structures into two lots and construct a new one family dwelling thereon on lands and premises commonly known as 102 Ringwood Avenue, Borough of Wanaque, more particularly known as Lot 6, 7, 8 on Block 416 on the Borough Tax Maps. And whereas the Board of Adjustment having conducted a public hearing on said application on November 2, 2005 and December 7, 2005 at which time the Board heard testimony in support of the application, reviewed the documentation submitted by the applicant and the Board having opened the meeting to the public and having considered all of the evidence so adduced, makes the following findings of fact and conclusions of law: 1) The lands and premises, the subject of the within application, are located in an R10 Zone. The lot, structures and uses are nonconforming. 2) The applicant was represented throughout these proceedings by Jay I. Lazerowitz, Esq., who maintains offices at 55 Harristown Road, Glen Rock, New Jersey. 3) The applicant recently purchased the within lands and premises and took title by way of one Deed. Thus by operation of law, the three nonconforming lots will merge into one lot. The lands and premises currently has two principal structures each of with is being utilized as a one family dwelling and a framed garaged and carport. The entire tract of land is 18,447 square feet and 20,000 square feet are required in an R10 before the property can be utilized for a two family dwelling. 4) The applicants seek permission to subdivide the property and construct a new one family dwelling on a vacant new lot, which would consist of 8,538 square feet. The two existing structures would remain on the remaining lands as an independent lot with 9,909 square feet. 5) During the hearings, testimony was adduced from Christopher Lantelme, with offices at 101 West Street, Hillsdale, New Jersey, who is a licensed engineer and prepared the plans utilized in support of the application. Mr. James Lupo, one of the members of the applicant, also testified as both a member of the Limited Liability Company and as someone with certain expertise in the professional business. 6) This application for development requires a Use Variance as to the identity for both lots and for numerous bulk variances including lot size and width. Additionally, the existing structures which would remain on proposed Lot 6 do not comply with the bulk requirements of the Borough Ordinances. 7) The Board in considering all of the evidence in deciding credibility to the testimony that it found to be credible determines that the applicant has failed to carry its burden with respect to this application and the statuary decision of all requirements with respect to both use and bulk variances and would be detrimental to the public good and welfare and impair the intent and purposes of the Borough Zoning Plan and Scheme. Now, therefore, be resolved by the Board of Adjustment of the Borough of Wanaque on this 4th day of January 2006, that this application for development be and is hereby denied. That is the proposed resolution.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.

MR. GREGOR: I was going to make a comment but you covered it down here. I was going to say and do you subdivide an existing nonconforming lot but you already covered it down here so no comments.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Thanks.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, I think we all voted yes on that denial. So we all qualified to vote.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, it was unanimous.

MR. HOFFMAN: It was unanimous under the denial.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, okay. We need a motion on that.

MR. LUDWIG: I'll make the motion.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right.

MR. HOFFMAN: I'll second.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. That was Mr. Ludwig and Mr. Hoffman.

MOTION TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Hoffman, Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And the other members are not qualified.

CORRESPONDENCE:

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item on the agenda is correspondence. Let's deal with this mess here. These are Gerri's copies, right?

MR. FAASSE: Yes. The original one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Yes, Mr. Chairman the Board has received a letter from an engineer from Gerald Gardner Associates on the application that we just denied, North Jersey LLC. They wish to deposit escrows with the Borough and have Mr. Gregor meet with them to review and discuss a revision that they could possibly come up with for a revised application. It would be my recommendation to the Board that this matter should not be handled by the Board itself but through the offices of the Zoning Administrator who is a good friend and a the construction official as well.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. FAASSE: If he sees fit to assign it to Mr. Gregor, he may do that but I don't think we should do it because -- you know -- they could be a way where they come in and it is not within the jurisdiction of the Board, for instance.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, he has to deem it substantially different than the last application --

MR. FAASSE: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: -- to present it to the Board.

MR. FAASSE: Right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: So if he is looking for guidance, I think in the zoning, I think he would have to ask the Zoning Administrator.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Mr. Jeff.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right.

MR. FAASSE: Right, you agree?

MR. GREGOR: No disagreement at all with that.

MR. FAASSE: I'll tell you, you are getting good. Such an agreeable man.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So that goes in their file here.

MR. HOFFMAN: Any other correspondence?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Just bear with me, I'll catch up in awhile, okay. Okay, so we will send that back to Jeff.

VOUCHERS:

MR. CHAIRMAN: The next item is vouchers.

MR. FAASSE: I got one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know you do. Wow, you need some gas money this month?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: I need a raise this year too. Will you give me a raise?

MR. CHAIRMAN: You got to make up a contract, then we will discuss your fees.

MR. FAASSE: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I was told we have to knock them in half.

MR. FAASSE: Oh my gosh.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, professional services for Mr. Faasse. Resolutions: Dowson, $125; North Jersey Partners $125, First Apple Reality, which was the lengthy one, $275 for a total of $525.

MR. FAASSE: Normally, my resolutions are $125 a pop.

MR. LUDWIG: Make a motion to approve.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: Second.

MR. COVELLI: After we get to subtract for the spelling error.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, you should.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. Okay, now Ralph, who can vote on this.

MR. FAASSE: Anybody.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody and everybody, okay.

MR. FAASSE: Absolutely they are all on -- well as long we don't -- you know -- an alternate can vote.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well since they have nothing to do these but they could still approve them.

MR. HOFFMAN: Well they heard the --

MR. CHAIRMAN: They heard your rendition tonight, so.

MR. HOFFMAN: They heard the --

MR. LUDWIG: Eloquent speech.

MR. COVELLI: They heard he performed the work.

MR. CHAIRMAN: There we go, that's right, he did the hard part.

MR. FAASSE: I mean it wouldn't be first that one of the Board Members voted no on one of my bills.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I wonder who does that.

MR. FAASSE: Hey Ludwig, did I do all right with that motion of yours. I mean -- you know-- statutory legal -- you know -- why you turned that down. He just says, denied.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right we got a motion to approve the voucher for Ralph.

MOTION TO APPROVE MR. FAASSE'S VOUCHERS:

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Hoffman. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. LUDWIG: You were pushing, Ralph, on that one.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I can't read what she wrote -- okay.

MR. FAASSE: That's because I've been a good friend with you for a long time.

MR. LUDWIG: I hate having an audience.

MR. FAASSE: Huh?

MR. LUDWIG: I hate having an audience.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Then we have the --

MR. FAASSE: Well at least waited until the Mayor before he ripped into -- I mean.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, okay. College tuition time Bill.

MR. GREGOR: Huh?

MR. CHAIRMAN: College tuition time for the girls.

MR. GREGOR: No, No, I am done with College.

MR. HOFFMAN: Where are you going to this time, South America?

MR. GREGOR: I can't go anyway the way these things, I don't have time.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a series of vouchers from our engineer.

MR. HOFFMAN: There is news.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Fennelly, which is application 21-05, which is Oak Street for $372.50. We have the Abma application $372.50. We have the Di Laura application for $247.50. We have Santoro for $372.50 and then we have Donus for $247.50 and Bill provided us with his tape as required. Total is $1,612.50.

MR. FAASSE: I should have been an engineer.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You keep saying that, maybe you should go back to school.

MR. LUDWIG: Motion to approve.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, a second.

MR. COVELLI: Second.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Second. Okay. I'll put my secretarial hat on here.

MR. HOFFMAN: Ralph you have E-Mail?

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, I do but I don't use it right now. I am in a bad way right now with my AOL. It is about to crash.

MR. HOFFMAN: You still use dial-up.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah.

MR. COVELLI: You still use AOL.

MR. FAASSE: You still AOL too.

MR. HOFFMAN: I had for about a day and I then I tried to rip it out of my computer.

MR. FAASSE: I didn't have Verizon at that time and I didn't want to go to --

MR. LUDWIG: Go cable.

MR. FAASSE: -- the optimum.

MR. LUDWIG: Go Optimum, you'll never go anywhere else.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Gentlemen, you are interrupting the secretary here. Roll Call.

MOTION TO APPROVE MR. GREGOR'S VOUCHERS:

Made by Member Ludwig, Seconded by Member Covelli. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. FAASSE: Okay, I went back Mr. Chairman and I researched that question that you had for me.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: Under 40:55D-10.2 Voting Eligibility. It can be a transcript or a recording of all of the hearing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: So, if we get the minutes and they are in the same form as November's were that would qualify as a transcript so we don't need a certification. But if you don't to wait and you would rather listen to it as you are commuting, we will get --

MR. CHAIRMAN: The problem is there is no guarantee when they are coming back.

MR. FAASSE: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That is our problem with that service.

UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Is this from November's meeting you are talking about.

MR. FAASSE: No December and it just for Dowson and it is not all the --

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not Dowson, Donus.

MR. FAASSE: Donus, that's right.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item. Approval of Minutes of the November 2nd meeting.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, that was the transcript.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. COVELLI: Mr. Chairman, I have a problem with the fact that I am absent in the beginning but then it notes that I came in --

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, you were a few minutes late.

MR. LUDWIG: Yeah, you were late.

MR. COVELLI: Yeah, I know but then she put it here but then if you go over here, it says I'm absent.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I know but then you showed up.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, you showed up.

MR. COVELLI: Then I showed up again.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. So on the cover she has you as present for this hearing.

MR. COVELLI: Okay.

MR. FAASSE: You were a little late because you had the prior meeting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right.

MR. COVELLI: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You were in Garfield -- Lodi, rather.

MR. LUDWIG: And it is just a technicality but they should really be referring to Board Attorney and Board Engineer as opposed to Borough.

MR. FAASSE: Oh, they got Borough.

MR. COVELLI: Actually it says township.

MR. LUDWIG: Huh?

MR. COVELLI: Actually it says township.

MR. LUDWIG: In spots they say Borough.

MR. FAASSE: Oh yeah, no, I am Board Attorney, Township Engineer -- oh Township Engineer.

MR. LUDWIG: No, inside.

MR. FAASSE: Inside.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well you can -- if the minutes are incorrect, you can amend them, show that as an amendment before you approve it.

MR. LUDWIG: I don't know if that is something really --

MR. COVELLI: That's why we pay you the big bucks, Ralph, as your associate.

MR. FAASSE: I know.

MR. LUDWIG: They identify you correctly by name but say on Page 91 --

MR. COVELLI: Other then the Unidentified Board Member.

MR. LUDWIG: Page 91, it says the Borough Engineer and the Borough Attorney.

MR. COVELLI: Here is a uidentified member.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, there is a lot of them.

MR. COVELLI: Uidentified?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Unidentfied yes. You make the big Township Planning Board, Ralph, you can see your name.

MR. FAASSE: I'm sorry, yeah, where is that?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right here.

MR. FAASSE: What happened here. Mr. Veltri --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Veltri, Borough Attorney --

MR. FAASSE: Where did you get these notes?

MR. CHAIRMAN: I got copied on this. Mr. Reuben, your buddy. Okay, approval of the minutes as --

MR. COVELLI: Amended.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Amended.

MR. HOFFMAN: So moved.

MR. LUDWIG: Motion to approve.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, second.

MR. COVELLI: Pick one on who did it and pick the other one who did it -- who second it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MOTION TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER MINUTES:

Made by Member Hoffman, Seconded by Member Ludwig. Voting yes were Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, the other ones are --

MR. FAASSE: Wow.

MR. COVELLI: Not qualified.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Not qualified. Okay. No lines, Gerri will love this mess.

MR. FAASSE: Gee you better send me a copy of this.

MR. COVELLI: If you had E-Mail, we could e-mail it to you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The best part is when you read it, read who the application was.

MR. FAASSE: Reuben?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. FAASSE: By who?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Longo.

MR. FAASSE: Oh yeah.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Engineers report. Bill, anything new on the horizon?

MR. GREGOR: Yeah, I received revised plans on Biggio, which we will be reviewing shortly. It just came in.

MR. LUDWIG: What no new applications?

MR. GREGOR: No new applications.

MR. FAASSE: It is a good thing.

MR. GREGOR: Ralph did you hear anymore on that --

MR. FAASSE: Not a word.

MR. GREGOR: The one --

MR. FAASSE: Antili (phonetic)

MR. GREGOR: No, you are going to be hearing from Antili, I think.

MR. COVELLI: You don't mean Reinsmith.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No.

MR. HOFFMAN: Reinsmith, what is going on Reinsmith?

MR. COVELLI: The candle factory?

MR. CHAIRMAN: The lumbar yard. Wanaque Lumbar Building Supply.

MR. FAASSE: Oh no, he is going to file an application. That was Mr. Becker from Mr. Vogel's.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, nobody got back to us.

MR. FAASSE: No.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. HOFFMAN: What is Wanaque Building Supply doing?

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is being sold.

MR. FAASSE: They want to come in for an interpretation as to whether it is a nonconforming use and to get the issuance of a certificate, which is their right. I just told Gerri, I said let them file the appropriate application.

MR. HOFFMAN: Sam Breen or someone is buying that?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Breen Industries.

MR. FAASSE: Breen Industries. Jerry Vogel is -- if you don't know him.

MR. HOFFMAN: Sam Breen is buying Wanaque Lumbar?

MR. FAASSE: Pardon?

MR. HOFFMAN: Breen is buying Wanaque Lumbar?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Breen Industries is buying Wanaque Lumbar.

MR. LUDWIG: Who is Breen -- what is Breen industries?

MR. CHAIRMAN: The quarry in Haledon.

MR. COVELLI: It is a quarry in North Haledon.

MR. CHAIRMAN: They buy a lot are a lot of quarries around here.

MR. HOFFMAN: What does he want to do, is he going to keep it as a lumbar yard or is he going to use it as a storage facility?

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is kind of vague, he wants an interpretation --

MR. FAASSE: Retail.

MR. CHAIRMAN: -- of our Borough Zoning Ordinance regarding a nonconforming use. Is that the right understanding?

MR. LUDWIG: I heard mason supplies.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah, he wants a determination that it is a valid nonconforming use, the retail and then it would depend on exactly what was retailed out of there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, which we are not too sure what the retail out of there is gong to be so it is kind of vague.

MR. HOFFMAN: Sounds vague.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next item is the discussion. There is no discussion.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to make a motion before we close tonight.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.

MR. COVELLI: I would like to make a motion that we authorize the Board Secretary to have made name plates for each of us for the dais. It is a new year and I think that that should be.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR. COVELLI: I think the applicants, the public, and anyone that is here to transcribe or anything else shouldn't have to try to figure out who the heck is sitting up there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Um-hum.

MR. FAASSE: Does the Mayor and Council have them?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

MR. COVELLI: And by the way I would extend that to the two --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Professionals too.

MR. COVELLI: -- Board Professionals as well.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah. The Planning Board doesn't.

MR. FAASSE: Doesn't.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Doesn't have it, the Mayor and Council does.

MR. FAASSE: Yeah. Well I was just thinking that we should make sure that --

MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, we don't want to step over, certainly.

MR. LUDWIG: I second that motion.

MR. FAASSE: Well make ours out of gold.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Were going to take a roll call.

MR. FAASSE: I don't know, that was a bold move Frank. A lot of people like anonymity.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Frank is the first on it, Don is the second. Nameplates I'll call it for her, she'll call me tomorrow.

MR. FAASSE: I don't understand what they are referring to me though. They say he agrees, then he says well maybe we ought to send it over to the Board of Adjustment see what they say.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Because Tony didn't agree, Veltri didn't want to insult Reuben.

MR. COVELLI: Ralph, we are in the middle of a vote, do you have to ask this question right now?

MR. FAASSE: Oh.

MR. CHAIRMAN: If you read it you'll get the players here.

MR. COVELLI: Holy cow, there is a motion on the floor.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The nameplate motion.

MOTION TO APPROVE NAMEPLATES:

Made by Member Covelli, Second by Member Ludwig. Voting yes Chairman Dunning, Members Covelli, Hoffman, Ludwig, Leonard, Koning, Willse.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. That will go as far as your front office and Don, you know this.

MR. LUDWIG: Well the thought was in the right place.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We have no budget.

MR. HOFFMAN: Now is the big vote, motion to adjourn.

MR. COVELLI: Second.

MOTION TO ADJOURN MEETING

Made by Member Hoffman, Seconded by Member Covelli. All members in favor.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, all in favor, we are out of here.