1 BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT
BOROUGH OF
WANAQUE
2
________________________
3 IN THE MATTER OF: :
TRANSCRIPT
CASE#:
19-06
4 SMSA Limited Partnership: PROCEEDINGS
d/b/a/
Verizon Wireless :
Block
999,
6 ________________________
7
Wednesday,
January 3, 2007
8
9
Commencing
at 8:25 p.m.
10
B O A R
D M E M B E R S P R E S E N T:
11
JACK DUNNING, Chairman
12 WILLIAM GRYGUS, Vice-Chairman
FRANK COVELLI
13 PETER HOFFMAN
DON
LUDWIG
14 ED LEONARD
ART
KONING
15 ERIC WILLSE
MICHAEL O'HANLON
16
GERRI MAROTTA, Board Secretary
17 WILLIAM GREGOR, Board Engineer
18 A P P E A R A N C E S:
19 RALPH FAASSE, ESQ.
Attorney for the Board
20
WARREN
O. STILWELL, ESQ.
21 Attorney for the Applicant
22 IRIS LaROSA, C.S.R,
RPR
23
PRECISION REPORTING SERVICE
24 Certified Shorthand Reporters
25
(908) 685-2227
PRECISION REPORTING SERVICE
(908) 685-2227
2
1
I N D E X
2
3 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS
REDIRECT RECROSS
4 Sean Haynberg 5
5 Frank Colasurdo 67
6
7
PUBLIC
SPEAKERS PAGE
8
David
DaSilva.............................44
9 John Amiello..............................52
Tom
Luciani...............................54
10
Bob Mazzola...............................61
11
12
13
14 E X H I B I T S
15
NUMBER
DESCRIPTION PAGE
16
17 A-1
Base map with overlays 17
18 A-2
Proposed coverage map 28
19 A-3
RF emissions report 38
20 A-4
Site plan and bulk chart 71
21 A-5
Site plan with bold property
lines 73
22
A-6 Detail site plan and site
23 elevations 77
24
25
3
1 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: 19-06
2 Limited Partnership doing business as
Verizon Wireless.
3 Good evening, Counsel.
4 MR. STILWELL: Good evening, Mr. Chairman,
5 members the Board. Warren Stilwell from the firm of
6 Cooper Levenson on behalf of the applicant,
7 SMSA d/b/a Verizon Wireless. This is an application to
8 put a monopole disguised as a flagpole at
the property
9 better known as the Wanaque Golden Agers'
property
10 located at
11 matter that had been advertised for a
hearing in the
12 beginning of October, was carried till
December, the
13 December meeting, and then carried to this
evening.
14 I have with me to testify three
15 individuals:
The first person is Mr. Sean Haynberg,
16 who's our radio frequency engineer. He'll testify with
17 respect to the need for a facility at this
place, the
18 height of the facility, and also the
compliance of this
19 facility with the requirements of the
Federal
20 Communications Commission with respect to
transmission
21 of radio frequency energy.
22 Our second witness is Mr. Frank
Colasurdo
23 who's our registered architect, and who is
responsible
24 for creating the plans that are before the
Board. Mr.
25 Colasurdo will be describing the proposed
facility.
4
1 And also he will be using a set of plans
that takes
2 into consideration the fact that the
3 going to be re-deeded to the Township. That is
4 something that affirmatively occurred
between the last
5 time we were here and now.
6 I talked to Mr. Carolle today
who advised
7 me that the Mayor commissioned at the
reorganization
8 meeting on January 1st adopted by first
reading the
9 notion that they were going to re-take or
take over
10 this property by deed from the Golden
Agers. And, of
11 course, any approval that this Board would
grant would
12 be subject to and conditioned upon that
actually
13 occurring.
14 We do have and did submit to the
engineer
15 and to the town administration plans that
were revised
16 to show the revision of the lot line based
on the
17 dedication of the roadway back to the
municipality.
18 Mr. Colasurdo will discuss the differences
between the
19 plan that you have and the plan as it will
exist. He's
20 got it broken down and he will be able to
discuss all
21 of the bulk requirements also.
22 Finally, I have Mr. Rick Masters
who's my
23 professional planner.
24 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Okay.
25 MR. STILWELL: May I start?
5
1 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Go ahead.
2 S E A N
H A Y N B E R G, V-Comm Telecommunications
3 Engineering,
4 08512, having been duly sworn, testifies as
follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. STILWELL:
6 Q.
Mr. Haynberg, you may adjust that.
It was
7 perfect for me. All right.
Mr. Haynberg, will you
8 advise the Board as to your background and
professional
9 qualifications, please?
10 A.
Sure. I have a bachelor of
science degree
11 in electrical engineering from
12 currently employed by V-Comm
Telecommunications
13
Engineering, which is a radio frequency engineering
14 consulting firm. I have a total of 17 years experience
15 in the area of radio frequency propagation
and
16 compliance of FCC rules and
regulations. I've
17 conducted numerous studies, measurements and
reports in
18 the area of radio frequency propagation and
compliance
19 of the FCC rules and regulations. And I have testified
20 and been accepted as a radio frequency
expert in other
21 townships in the state of
22 MR. STILWELL: Will the Board accept Mr.
23 Haynberg's qualifications?
24 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Yes.
25 BY MR. STILWELL:
6
1 Q.
Thank you very much. Mr.
Haynberg, is
2 Verizon Wireless licensed by the Federal
Communications
3 Commission?
4 A.
Yes. They're a licensed cellular
and PCS
5 provider for this market, this area.
6 Q.
Okay. And cellular and PCS are
terms of
7 art that we use when they describe
frequencies that
8 Verizon Wireless is licensed to utilize?
9 A.
Correct. The cellular frequency
band is
10 part of the electromagnetic spectrum in the
800 to 900
11 megahertz frequency range. And the PCS band is in the
12 1900 megahertz frequency range.
13 Q.
This Board has heard, I'm sure, other
14 applications by cellular carriers. And what's common
15 with all of them is that they depend on
two-way
16 communication; is that correct?
17 A.
Correct. It is a typical
commercial
18 wireless voice and data communication
system.
19 Q.
And it relies on the downlink and the
20 uplink.
Could you describe what those are?
21 A.
Right. It is a two-way link
between the
22
radio base station and the user devices, whether they
23 be voice handsets or devices in laptop PCs
to be able
24 to provide two-way connection for voice and
data
25 communications to there and out.
7
1 Q.
And when you design the network in order to
2 provide services that you provide how do you
do that?
3 A.
We look at the surrounding area, the
4 terrain, the existing structures, and the
network of
5 existing on-air cell sites that Verizon
currently has,
6 and look to fill in the areas that do not
have adequate
7 levels of service. And that's the only reason we're
8 here today.
9 Q.
And can you describe the type of services
10 that you provide?
11 A.
The services include, in general:
Voice
12 services, there's special messaging
services,
13 multi-media messaging service, video
messaging.
14 There's a compliment of facts and data and
services,
15 high speed data services, all provided by
Verizon
16 wireless's network.
17 Q.
This is not your grandfather's mobile
18 telephone?
19 A.
No.
20 Q.
Okay. All of those services
require
21 capacity, and this two-way communication
with the user
22 and the cell site itself?
23 A.
Correct.
24 Q.
And if you don't have a cell site in the
25 area then you're not able to provide the
range of
8
1 services that you provide?
2 A.
Correct.
3 Q.
Is there also a phenomenon going on in
4 terms of the usage of these devices in terms
of when
5 they're used and how they're used?
6 A.
Well, there are loading periods of the day,
7 higher loading periods during the busy
hours, typically
8 towards the end of the day in the four to 7
o'clock
9 region.
In addition, there's other busy hours at night
10 between the eight and 10 o'clock areas where
the
11 network does get loaded up at the peak
levels as
12 compared to the standard loading during the
day.
13 Q.
So there's a lot more usage going on in
14 peoples' homes now?
15 A.
Correct. A lot more in-building
usage than
16
there has been in the past. A lot
of homes are
17 increasingly using their cellular phones as
their only
18 means of communication.
19 Q.
There is a phenomenon that Verizon Wireless
20 in particular has been experiencing?
21 A.
Correct.
22 Q.
Is there a need for service in this area?
23 And did you bring with you an exhibit that
you can use
24 to demonstrate that?
25 A.
Yes. I've prepared two exhibits
showing
9
1 the radio propagation: The first from the existing
2 cell sites that are on air from the Verizon
Wireless
3 network; and the second in addition to the
existing
4 network the proposed site.
5 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Chairman, where do you
6 normally set up your easel, over here?
7 A.
As I mentioned this first exhibit shows the
8 radio propagation in the surrounding Wanaque
area.
9 Q.
Sean, before you get to that, can you tell
10 the Board who prepared this, how it was
prepared?
11 A.
This exhibit was prepared by my company,
12 V-Comm.
We prepare these types of exhibits analyzing
13 the radio propagation from cellular and PCS
networks
14 from the major wireless carriers.
15 Q.
And this exhibit has on it certain
16 information that's been added to a base map?
17 A.
Correct. The base map is a
topographical
18 map.
And we added dots showing the existing on-air
19 Verizon cell sites, the proposed site in the
center.
20 And other -- we also have on the map a black
line that
21 denotes the township boundary. And the green shaded
22 areas are areas from the existing on-air
Verizon
23 network that has reliable coverage. The areas in white
24 show the significant gap in coverage in the
center of
25 the exhibit.
10
1 Q.
And can you describe what the green areas
2 mean and how they were produced for this
exhibit?
3 A.
V-Comm utilizes industry standard
4 propagation modeling tools to predict the
radio
5 propagation and coverage in the area using
digital
6 terrain database, and including Verizon's
standards for
7 reliable service, and show in green the
areas which
8 have that reliable service.
9 Q.
And you can see there's quite a bit of
10 irregularity in terms of propagation of the
signal in
11 this area?
12 A.
Correct. The propagations are
very terrain
13 dependent.
It's a very mountainous area with a lot of
14 valleys with the existing sites on air. As you can see
15 they are in the valleys. As you get away from the
16 sites the site covers about a mile or so in
radius.
17 There's a fair amount of area that will be
less than
18 reliable service.
19 Q.
Based on your experience in the business
20 with respect to the use of this propagation
tool and
21 the accuracy of those exhibits do you have
an opinion
22 as to how accurate those exhibits are?
23 A.
Yes. We have frequently performed
field
24 measurements with -- with transmit receivers
for both
25 sites and on-air sites. So our tool is calibrated to
11
1 field measurements. In addition, this particular site,
2 we did perform drive measurements at this
site with a
3 crane at the proposed site to verify the
prediction is
4 accurately modeling the radio propagation.
5 Q.
So besides the software propagation tool
6 you also have hard real world data as a
result of this
7 crane test?
8 A.
Correct.
9 Q.
And that was incorporated into the exhibit?
10 A.
Correct.
11 MR. FAASSE: But the crane test was only
12 done on the proposed site?
13 MR. STILWELL: Correct.
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
15 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Could you orient
16 north on that?
17 THE WITNESS: North is straight up. This
18 is a topographical map. This is the township boundary.
19 This is
20 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Ringwood.
21 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, Ringwood.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Your existing sites,
23 are those labeled?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
I'll go through those,
25 if you'd like.
12
1 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Yes, could you?
2 THE WITNESS: Starting to the north there's
3 a site called Ringwood Two that's on a tower
on Cupsaw
4 Drive in Ringwood. Going clockwise there's another
5 site in Ringwood on a monopole on
6 Again, clockwise towards the east there's an
7 site monopole on
8 there's a
9 Road.
And there's a second site in
10 tower on
11 surrounding -- they're all just outside and
surrounding
12 Wanaque and they're all higher.
13 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: Could you tell me
14 what a monopole is?
15 THE WITNESS: A monopole is just a pole,
16 you know, as compared to a lattice tower
where you have
17 a structure.
A monopole is just a single straight
18 pole.
19 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: Like a very tall
20 telephone pole?
21 THE WITNESS: Right.
Or a flagpole.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: I have a question for
23 you.
I know within the Borough here there are, of
24 course, we have this pole here. And then on top of the
25 water tower also off of 287, I believe,
there is some.
13
1 Is there any FCC regulations mandating the
sharing of
2 existing structures?
3 THE WITNESS: There's no mandate but, you
4 know, it's encouraged. And Verizon does look to
5 co-exist on existing structures wherever
possible.
6 Regarding the two structures you mentioned,
the one at
7 the hall here is obviously very close to the
proposed
8 facility, however, there's no room, no
available space.
9 It's at capacity already. So that was not an option.
10 And the other water tank was
significantly
11 farther to the south. As I mentioned earlier it's a
12 very terrain dependant area. As you move farther to
13 the south, you get closer to this site, we
have a lot
14 of overlap coverage. And the coverage would not extend
15 into this higher area in Wanaque. So we need another
16 site to cover this other area. So it really wasn't
17
ideal for this location.
18 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: So you're saying that
19 this pole here is already at capacity?
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
There's no
21 additional space at this pole over here.
22 MR. STILWELL: My engineer has the drawings
23 for that particular facility and will be
able to
24 discuss it in some detail. But it, essentially, has to
25 do with the fact that the area on top of the
monopole
14
1 which is RF penetrable is filled with
antennas. The
2 only existing space available would be below
that on
3 the exterior of the pole at a fairly low
height.
4 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Is there any
5 regulation as to how close the antennas can
be?
6 Because they are transmitting out to
saturate the
7 surrounding area, I mean, with radio waves.
8 THE WITNESS: You mean, located on the same
9 structure?
10 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: No. At
this
11 structure here the proximity to how close
they are
12 together.
Is there a standard as to how far away one
13 pole would be to another pole even if it's
from another
14 carrier?
15 THE WITNESS: Typically you could collocate
16 towers fairly closely without a problem.
17 MR. STILWELL: I can tell you from a legal
18 standpoint, from a regulatory standpoint there's
no
19 regulation.
20 MR. FAASSE: But I think he was asking
21 from a radio one.
22 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: From a scientific
23 standpoint how much radiation is being
emitted by two
24 towers so close together?
25 MR. FAASSE: Or interference.
15
1 THE WITNESS: Right.
There really is, you
2 know, you can collocate them very
closely. And even,
3 you have antennas that are collocated on the
same
4 structure, and we analyze the frequency and
5 interference issues. As long as you have a sufficient
6 couple feet space between the antennas
there's usually
7 not a problem.
8 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: So you could
9 conceivably put 35 antennas in an acre and
not have any
10 interference?
11 THE WITNESS: If you did it correctly, I
12 mean, there is an isolation
requirement. And it could
13 be 50 feet horizontally or a couple feet
vertically,
14 depending on antennas, depending on
frequency. So
15 there are a number of parameters, but you
could
16 collocate a fair number of antennas in a
very close
17 location.
18 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Could you indicate
19 which sites are basically on a peak and
which ones are
20 in a valley?
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
This one's on the
22 peak, this one, this Ringwood Two site. In addition to
23 the Ringwood site both sites are not that
tall a tower
24 but their ground elevation will help them
out. This
25 site is also on the peak, relatively on the
peak, and
16
1 is also relatively -- it's a 104-foot
monopole. So
2 it's not that tall a structure on ground
elevation.
3 This one is also higher ground elevation and
the
4 structure is about 122 feet centerline for
the antenna.
5 So the combination of those two cover the
area fairly
6 well.
7 This site's not on a peak, it's
sort of the
8 middle to be able to provide coverage to
this
9 surrounding area. And this site it's not on a peak but
10 it does provide good coverage. This is a valley this
11 whole area.
So as you move far away from here there
12 are a lot of changing terrain, and it will
typically
13 cover inside that valley from outside from a
terrain
14 and propagation standpoint.
15 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: So your proposal with
16 this tower would pretty well fill up your
white areas?
17 MR. STILWELL: We're about to get to the
18 second exhibit that shows what the coverage
would be
19 like.
There's a couple of other things I need to ask
20 first.
21 MR. FAASSE: Just so we're clear, the
22 green right now is Verizon's coverage?
23 THE WITNESS: Correct, existing on-air
24 coverage today from their existing network.
25 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: On their coverage
17
1 being you wouldn't get a dropped call or --
2 THE WITNESS: Correct.
The wireless
3 service will provide all of the services
that I
4 mentioned earlier. And it would provide service to
5 people on the street, in cars, and in the
building.
6 MR. FAASSE: I don't mean to jump ahead,
7 but you have another exhibit that would show
services
8 in Wanaque by other providers such as
Cingular, Sprint,
9 whatever?
10 MR. STILWELL: No.
11 (Exhibit, A-1, base map with
overlays, is
12 received and marked in evidence.)
13 THE WITNESS: The second exhibit shows what
14 you see here. In addition, we're showing the coverage
15 with the proposed site after it was built
what it will
16 look like for the Verizon network.
17 MR. STILWELL: We just marked that as A-1,
18 is that correct? So everybody understands that that's
19 A-1.
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
21 MR. GREGOR: I think the point we're
22 getting to, obviously, as you well know,
Wanaque
23 encourages collocation wherever
possible. And you
24 mentioned due to a question, two other cell
sites which
25 exist in town which are not Wanaque. And indicating
18
1 the closest one -- or not, I'm sorry, not
Verizon,
2 indicating that the cell tower is at
capacity here.
3 THE WITNESS: Correct.
4 MR. GREGOR: Two questions: Number one,
5 are there any other cell towers which you
potentially
6 could collocate on within the area that is
shown on
7 your map?
And I'll let you answer that question and
8 then I have one more.
9 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of.
10 There's no other structure providing the
height that we
11 are required to locate our antennas and be
able to hold
12 those antennas that will provide building
coverage for
13 this area of Wanaque.
14 MR. STILWELL: If we could move to our next
15 exhibit.
It's a better demonstration.
16 MR. GREGOR: I know you're going to get to
17 what the coverage is. I'm interested in the potential
18 for collocation so we explore that
totally. Is there
19 any other collocation sites?
20 THE WITNESS: The other water tank that was
21 mentioned further to the south, I think it's
somewhere
22 right in here, in which case it would only
cover at
23 best the southern half of this area. And we would have
24 the northern half not covered. So it's typically not
25 in a good location to provide coverage to
this
19
1 significant part of Wanaque that's not
already covered
2 by the Verizon network.
3 MR. GREGOR: What you're saying --
4 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: What radius does a
5 cell tower cover?
6 THE WITNESS: They generally cover about a
7 mile or so radius, depending on the terrain
and height
8 that you're going on.
9 MR. GREGOR: In other words, you're saying
10 there are no other existing cell towers by
anyone that
11 exists in the area that provides the
coverage that
12 you're
going to show on Exhibit 2 that you feel you
13 need?
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
And I should
15 mention that the proposal is for a tower
that would be
16 able to collocate another carrier. So Verizon is, you
17 know, for collocation in general.
18 MR. GREGOR: Just one other carrier?
19 THE WITNESS: At least one other carrier.
20 But I believe another expert can testify to
that.
21 MR. GREGOR: My follow-up question was
22 regarding the existing monopole that exists
right
23 outside Borough Hall. You indicated that was filled to
24 capacity?
25 THE WITNESS: Correct.
20
1 MR. GREGOR: Could you tell us what that
2 capacity is?
How many collocated antennas are on that?
3 THE WITNESS: There are at least two
4 vertical sets. It might be a third, as well, that I
5 have heard from our real estate department
where
6 there's no additional space for Verizon
antennas. In
7 addition, I don't believe there's any space
on the
8 ground.
Is there an expert going to testify to that?
9 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Colasurdo would be in a
10 better position.
11 MR. GREGOR: Then you have explored that
12 and you're going to give that information to
the Board?
13 MR. STILWELL: Yes.
14 MR. GREGOR: Thank you.
15 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Just a generic
16 question.
In your opinion how far away are we from
17 affordable satellite phone technology that
would
18 eventually replace these monopoles?
19 THE WITNESS: The problem with satellite
20 technology is the coverage in
buildings. Even in cars
21 can be a problem, including trees and, you
know -- in a
22 lot of areas satellite coverage -- you know,
a lot of
23 the satellites are over the equator and
they're
24 shooting very far away. I don't know if anybody has
25 satellite radio service, but --
21
1 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: I have that and GPS,
2 they're very reliable.
3 THE WITNESS: Well, not indoors.
4 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Well, I don't think a
5 cell phone was ever really meant to be
indoors either.
6 THE WITNESS: Well, now the predominant
7 service is indoors. And from an FCC license standpoint
8 Verizon is not allowed to provide service
from
9 satellites.
It's a terrestrial license service.
So
10 they must provide service from the
ground. There are
11 other frequencies for satellites, and that's
a
12 different frequency band all together.
13 And the two companies that
provide that,
14
15
financially. So I'm not sure it's
going to be a sound
16 technology.
17 BY MR. STILWELL:
18 Q.
Could you describe the gap that exists in
19 terms of the green area, and the roadways
that it
20 covers?
21 A.
The area throughout the green detects the
22 gap in service. The scale of this map is approximately
23 one to 15,000 scale kilometers approximately
this far.
24 So the gap in service extends from the
proposed
25 location about two kilometers to the north,
and about
22
1 one and three quarters kilometers to the
south, and
2 slightly less than that east and west.
3 Q.
Okay. And with respect to the
height that
4 we're proposing, the height of -- the
overall height of
5 monopole is 135 feet?
6 A.
Correct.
7 Q.
And the antennas you're planning on two
8 arrays of antennas within the monopole?
9 A.
Correct. At the top of the
monopole;
10 correct.
11 Q.
Could you describe why that height is --
12 maybe your next exhibit might be more
appropriate,
13 might show it better?
14 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: I'm surprised that it
15 only -- the antenna broadcasts about one
mile radius?
16 THE WITNESS: One mile or so. Depends, if
17 the terrain opens up the line-of-sight it
will go
18 further, approximately two miles or so. But it's
19
really dependent on the antenna height, ground
20 elevation, and the terrain, and you're, you
know, the
21 frequency band.
22 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Do they use a lower
23 powered antenna in the metropolitan areas
than say out
24 in
25 these people buried in an avalanche.
23
1 THE WITNESS: In very dense urban areas
2 they do lower the power to be able to handle
the higher
3 capacity, like say, in
4 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: So the lower the
5 power the antenna is putting out they can
handle more
6 phone calls?
7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
In this area you
8 don't have that concern. I mean, this site is designed
9
for pole power, so it's not any different than an urban
10 site.
So this is about what -- the next exhibit will
11 show about as far as you can get it with
existing
12 equipment.
13 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: You hear about all of
14 these -- the ones that were just built.
15 MR. FAASSE: Well, maybe he can explain
16 it.
How can they have cell service up on the mountain?
17 Is it
18 THE WITNESS: Sometimes you can go on, like
19 I said, a mile or two miles of service has
continuous
20 coverage.
You can sometimes have service very far on a
21
peak of a mountain where you have direct line-of-sight
22 to an antenna that could be spotty, it could
be, you
23 know, coming and going. So there's a lot of
24 irregularities to our propagation. So that would
25 explain it.
24
1 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Can you put this in
2 some kind of layman quantity, like a
percentage? The
3 way -- it doesn't say you don't have any
service at
4 all, you have service, but the likelihood of
you
5 dropping a call, can you put that in some
kind of real
6 number, say like 50 percent? Do you know what I'm
7 saying?
8 THE WITNESS: The white area, or I should
9 say the green areas are Verizon standards
for reliable
10 service where all the service will be able
to serve
11 people reliably, in building, on streets and
in cars.
12 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: When you say
13 "reliably" are you saying 99
percent of the time?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes.
Ninety-nine percent of
15 the time it would provide coverage. In the next
16 exhibit I will show you what that area will
look like
17 from the proposed site.
18 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: But you're not
19 talking just about voice communication?
20 THE WITNESS: All services.
21 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: So you may have good
22 coverage voicewise, but you may not be able
to get your
23 text messaging and whatnot in these areas?
24 THE WITNESS: Well, text messaging usually
25 goes a little bit further than voice.
25
1 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: That's what I
2 thought.
To be honest with you, all my kids have
3 Verizon and they have better coverage than I
do, I
4 mean, in this town.
5 MR. FAASSE: In Wanaque.
6 THE WITNESS: You can see some areas that
7 are spotty today, and there's other areas
that may have
8 coverage in short periods during the day
that's not
9 fully loaded on the network. So that would explain it.
10 But it doesn't meet the level of service
Verizon would
11 like to service at the customer's request
for all their
12 voice and data needs.
13 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: So what I'm trying
14 to say is, what is the criteria that made
those white
15 areas white?
16 MR. GREGOR: Good question. Very good
17 question.
18 THE WITNESS: It's a combination of
19 terrain, equipment. Verizon network is designed to
20 operate at an operational path loss of 115
dB.
21 MR. STILWELL: Stop right there, because
22 that's the key element.
23 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: That's what I'm
24 trying to get, a number here.
25 MR. STILWELL: That's the standard that
26
1 Verizon designs for in an area like this,
the
2 morphology that this has, the population,
the density,
3 the -- et cetera --
4 THE WITNESS: The load frequency, all the
5 services that you provide.
6 MR. STILWELL: Is 115 dBm.
7 THE WITNESS: Of path loss.
The last one
8 is modeled here --
9 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Of what?
10 MR. STILWELL: Path loss, p-a-t-h l-o-s-s.
11 THE WITNESS: It's operational path loss.
12 So from the power you're pumping out of your
antennas,
13 how much path loss you get all the way to
the used
14 devices at all those locations in your town.
15 MR. FAASSE: See, but what's the
16 percentage of coverage, I mean, your
service, is it 40
17 percent, 50 percent in the white area? Let's be very
18 honest, I've got Verizon. I've got service here in the
19 municipal building. I've never had any problem here
20 with the service in the municipal building.
21 THE WITNESS: There are areas that would
22 not have the full level of reliable
service. Like,
23 there are some areas that we're currently
showing in
24 the township today that have some levels of
service.
25 It can be spotty, it may not support
high-speed data or
27
1 some voice service. It depends on the proximity.
2 MR. STILWELL: The bottom line is, you
3 don't have a strict percentage?
4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 MR. STILWELL: But we know that the white
6 area is an area --
7 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: What I'm looking at
8 right now without walking up there, I would
say that
9 the municipal building, from where I am
guessing it is,
10 is in a white area?
11 THE WITNESS: Correct.
It's very close to
12 the blue dot. It's probably underneath that blue dot
13 in area.
And the next exhibit will show a significant
14 improvement in coverage in the --
15 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: I just bought a
16 Verizon phone it has four bars in that white
area.
17 THE WITNESS: In this area you may have
18 some coverage along the major roads, as you
go off the
19 major road, you know, it would drop off
below their
20 level of reliable service.
21 BOARD MEMBER COVELLI: Is it safe to say
22 that in the white area the little guy has to
follow you
23 and say, can you hear me now, but in the
green area you
24 don't need him dispatched?
25 THE WITNESS: Correct.
28
1 BOARD MEMBER COVELLI: That's in laymen's
2 term.
3 MR. FAASSE: But when you did this is
4 there a guy out there or a truck out here
that says we
5 have service here, or we don't have service
here, or is
6 this on the computer analysis?
7 THE WITNESS: No. We
did perform
8 measurements in this area. And the next exhibit will
9 show you the coverage that we verify with
those
10 measurements.
11 MR. STILWELL: Let's put that up.
12 MR. FAASSE: That's with the projected
13 coverage is the next map?
14 MR. STILWELL: We're right.
We're going to
15 mark this as A-2.
16 (Exhibit A-2, proposed coverage
map, is
17 received and marked in evidence.)
18 MR. FAASSE: That's not with the
little guy
19 going around?
20 MR. STILWELL: This shows that the little
21 guy won't have to drive around.
22 THE WITNESS: This exhibit shows the same
23 green areas from the existing towers in the
area. In
24 addition this green area in the middle now
is all of
25 showing new fill-in coverage in the, you
know, lower
29
1 Wanaque, the new wave Wanaque area and the
surrounding
2 roads in that area. So there is significant
3 improvement in coverage as compared to all
the white in
4 that exhibit in the township to the blue
green shaded
5 areas for this facility. So this would be extremely
6 reliable service in this whole entire area.
7 BY MR. STILWELL:
8 Q.
Just same question, did your firm prepare
9 that exhibit?
10 A.
Yes.
11 Q. And the colors mean the same thing?
12 A.
Correct.
13 Q.
And the additional green area is exactly
14 the same as Exhibit A-1?
15 A.
Correct. With the addition of the
16 propagation for the proposed site, which
would not just
17 model without the regular propagation tool,
but also
18 drive test it to verify the tool is
accurately
19 depicting the signal strength.
20 Q.
In addition to the colored-in area that's
21 depicted with respect to coverage are there
any other
22 objectives for a site like this in terms of
23 seamlessness and reliability?
24 A. Well, Verizon Wireless attempts to provide
25 seamless service that it sends out from the
more urban
30
1 areas, and this site doesn't provide
continuing service
2 with the surrounding Verizon sites as best
they can for
3 this area.
We did drive test it and we're requesting a
4 height of 135 feet to the top of the tower,
which we
5 did need.
We tested it at a higher height and did not
6 really see much of the benefit. We tested it at a
7 slightly lower height and we did see a
diminution of
8 coverage towards the south and towards the
north. And
9 we're hoping to have a hole between these
two Verizon
10 sites, and therefore we're confident that we
do require
11 135 feet at this location to provide this
enhancement
12
in coverage in Wanaque.
13 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Now, is there an
14 average - going back to that 115 dBm path
loss, is
15 there a new value now with this green area?
16 THE WITNESS: The green area represents 115
17 dB of path loss for the existing and the
proposed.
18 It's the same standard for the whole plot.
19 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Do you know how tall
20 this pole is here?
21 MR. STILWELL: 107 feet.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Why is it --
23 MR. FAASSE: Are you testifying, Mr.
24 Attorney?
I'll swear you in.
25 MR. STILWELL: If you know how high it is.
31
1 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
2 MR. STILWELL: We know how high it is.
3 MR. FAASSE: Your further expert is going
4 to tell us it's 107 feet?
5 MR. STILWELL: That's a proffer.
6 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Do you know if
7 there's a significant elevation difference
between this
8 site here and your site that would --
9 THE WITNESS: I don't know, but --
10 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: -- that
would require
11 you to go 28 more feet?
12 THE WITNESS: Even if it wasn't, the top of
13 the tower is not available, as I'm told.
14 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: No, but I'm saying,
15 why do you need 28 more feet than they have
here?
16 THE WITNESS: It's a different network.
17 You know, their network has a different technology,
18 different power, different equipment
requirements,
19 different surrounding cell site
locations. It's a
20 different network grid of cell sites
completely. So
21 every operator needs a different elevation
to suit
22 their needs.
23 MR. FAASSE: You're not saying their
24 technology is better than yours?
25 THE WITNESS: No. It
really goes down to
32
1 the network, it's a completely different
network.
2 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: You tested the
3 proposed site at different heights?
4 THE WITNESS: Correct.
5 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: How much different,
6 5 feet, 20 feet?
7 THE WITNESS: We tested it at the proposed
8 antenna elevation 20 feet higher and 20 feet
lower. At
9 20 feet higher it's a very marginal
improvement. We
10 don't really see a need to secure additional
height.
11 And 20 feet lower there was a noticeable
diminution in
12 the
areas to the south and into the north up here.
13 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: But you don't have
14 any displays to show us what those coverages
would have
15 been at those heights?
16 THE WITNESS: No.
What we incorporate into
17 this display is the proposed height.
18 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Is the proposed
19 height?
20 THE WITNESS: Right.
21 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Because you could
22 have weighed the difference in heights as to
the
23 differences in the services too?
24 THE WITNESS: Correct.
I mean, what you
25
would have seen is a large area, the area to the south
33
1 and to the north.
2 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Are there any other
3 proposed sites in the area that you have
under
4 consideration?
5 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of. No
6 other proposed existing structures in the
area.
7 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: No.
Your own -- new
8 sites somewhere for Verizon in any of the
surrounding
9 vicinity where other coverages might be
incorporated?
10 THE WITNESS: Today there are no other
11 planned sites in this whole entire area
besides --
12 MR. FAASSE: So it's also safe to assume,
13 though, that you do not make a test
utilizing another
14 site anywhere?
15 THE WITNESS: Correct.
There's no --
16 MR. FAASSE: You didn't make a test saying
17 that at 85 feet you would need another pole?
18 THE WITNESS: Right.
We did not do that.
19 This site was really ideally located, as you
can see,
20 between these two Verizon sites and between
this site.
21 And directly inside this area we like to
cover in
22 Wanaque the town and provide some coverage
up and down
23 these roads.
24 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Do you typically try
25 to hook up with a municipally owned piece of
property
34
1 or...
2 THE WITNESS: Sure.
Well, from an RF
3 standpoint it's a site suitable for the
network. We
4 look at that, we do look at existing
structures,
5 municipal township properties, yes.
6 MR. STILWELL: The Board is aware of the
7 fact that the municipality has actively
participated in
8 facilitating our use of this property. And it was
9 necessary for them to adopt a Resolution
that modified
10 a deed restriction that was created when the
property
11 was originally transferred to the Golden
Agers, because
12 pursuant to public lands and buildings law
when there
13 is a transfer to a noncommercial entity such
as the
14 Wanaque Golden Agers they can only use it
for a
15 specific purpose and not a noncommercial
purposes
16 without a modification. That modification took place.
17 The Borough of Wanaque did adopt a
Resolution that
18 modified that restriction to permit this
facility to be
19 built.
20 They've also taken a second
public --
21 adopted on first reading a second public
Resolution to
22 accept the rededication of the street. So what's
23 taking place is with the advisement consent
of the
24 municipality.
25 THE WITNESS: What's proposed is a
35
1 flagpole, so that you really shouldn't see
the antennas
2 on the inside of the flagpole canister. So it is off
3 the main road. So visually it should not be that
4 obvious.
5 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: This is going to be
6 similar to the white monopole that's out
here, it's
7 going to be painted white to look like a
flagpole?
8 THE WITNESS: Well, actually, another
9 expert should answer that.
10 MR. FAASSE: You can have it painted
11 whatever color you want.
12 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Well, the proposal
13 is for a big white pole like this one.
14 MR. STILWELL: We have photo simulations of
15
what it's going to look like. My
planner will have
16 them.
17 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Okay.
18 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Any other questions on
19 this?
20 MR. FAASSE: No.
21 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: There are no other
22 sites that the municipality had that were
better suited
23 property?
24 THE WITNESS: You mean green acres, open
25 land sites or --
36
1 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Yes.
2 THE WITNESS: I wasn't aware. Real estate
3 submits sites to RF, and I'm not aware of
any other
4 sites that were submitted that --
5 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: What is your real
6
estate looking for, ease of access for electricity and
7 construction?
8 THE WITNESS: Interested owners.
9 MR. STILWELL: There's a wide range of
10 parameters.
11 MR. FAASSE: There's going to be another
12 witness, the real estate man?
13 MR. STILWELL: I suppose we could.
14 MR. FAASSE: You know, somewhere I read
15 in our RF consideration that there's
prohibition with
16 respect to being so close to certain bodies
of water;
17 is that true?
18 THE WITNESS: The one consideration you
19 have on the bodies of water is that the RF
would go
20 much farther than it will on land. So you have
21 sometimes interference concerns, but that's
over large
22 bodies of water where you have a network of
cell sites
23 in more urban areas, you have cell sites in
both sides
24 of the body of water and propagating both
areas, that
25 would not occur here.
37
1 MR. FAASSE: So there wouldn't be any
2 concern if it's too close to a swimming lake
or a pool?
3 THE WITNESS: Absolutely not. No concern
4 here.
5 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: What would happen,
6 would that interfere with your own signal?
7 THE WITNESS: Right.
You would be managing
8 your use of your reliable service, so you
wouldn't be
9 interfering with anyone else. If anything, you would
10 be managing the noise on their own network
to optimize
11 the coverage of your own base station.
12 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Haynberg is also our
13 expert with respect to compliance of these
facility's
14 and the Federal Communications Commission
requirements
15 of the transmission of radio frequency
energy.
16 BY MR. STILWELL:
17 Q.
Mr. Haynberg, has V-Comm prepared a report
18 that analyzes whether or not this facility
complies
19 with the Federal Communications Commission
20 requirements?
21 A.
Correct. We analyzed and studied
the radio
22 emissions from this site from an FCC
compliance
23 standpoint.
And we computed utilizing FCC established
24 methods procedures and formula, which we
indicated in
25 our report.
The total field strength around the
38
1 structure from all the proposed antennas on
the tower
2 and that field strength is 0.06 percent of the
FCC
3 standard, which is well below the limit,
approximately
4 greater than a thousand times below the
limit. So it's
5 a very low level. And, therefore, it complies by a far
6 margin with the FCC rules and regulations
regarding RF
7 emissions.
8 Q.
I've marked the report as A-3.
It's
9 entitled RF Emission Study for New York SMSA
Limited
10 Partnership d/b/a Verizon Wireless Wanaque
site, 10
11 Villa Place.
This is the report that you're referring
12 to?
13 A.
Right.
14 (Exhibit A-3, RF emissions
report, is
15 received and marked for Identification.)
16 Q.
And the conclusions that you just stated
17 are in this report?
18 A.
Yes.
19 Q.
And you've reviewed this report?
20 A.
Correct.
21 Q.
And you agree with the conclusions in this
22 report?
23 A.
Yes.
24 MR. FAASSE: It's prepared by V-Comm?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
39
1 MR. FAASSE: What's the date on it?
2 BOARD MEMBER KONING: September 19th, 2006.
3 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: That figure 0.06
4 percent is that right on the pole or is that
a hundred
5 feet away?
6 THE WITNESS: That is the highest level
7 that you see anywhere in the ground
surrounding that
8 pole.
So...
9 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: How close to the pole
10 is surrounding the pole?
11 THE WITNESS: It's not always the highest
12 signal strength at the pole, because of the
way the
13 antennas are designed and the lobes that
extend down,
14 the vertical plane. Commonly, you know, you could have
15 the maximum 100 feet away from the pole
itself, because
16 they're designed to transmit to the Horizon
not
17 straight down. So you wouldn't typically have --
18 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: So it comes out more
19 or less in a conical shape?
20 THE WITNESS: Correct.
21 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: So the further away
22 you are from the base of the pole would
increase --
23 THE WITNESS: Correct.
But you also have
24 radio propagation that decreases rapidly as
well. So
25 in the middle, typically with this height
100 feet,
40
1 maybe 200 feet away you'd see the
maximum. We show the
2 maximum report, and that's the number I
indicated which
3 is approximately 0.06 percent of the FCC
standard, very
4 low level.
The limit allows you to go up to a hundred
5 percent of the FCC standard. So you could, in fact,
6 have a thousand of these at an exact same
spot and
7 still comply with the FCC limits. That's basically
8 because the power that Verizon utilizes is
very similar
9 power.
10 MR. FAASSE: Counsel, you will supply us
11 with a signed copy of this report,
right? I mean, it
12 hasn't been prepared by this witness and not
signed.
13 MR. STILWELL: Not a problem.
14 MR. FAASSE: The question is, are each of
15 these facilities licensed by the FCC after
16 construction?
17 THE WITNESS: You mean, Verizon facilities?
18 Absolutely.
Every facility is licensed to utilize --
19 Verizon has cellular and PCS frequency bands
from the
20 FCC and they're licensed to utilize it in
the entire
21 market, which is part of the northern New
Jersey market
22 area.
23 MR. FAASSE: Well, it's part of their
24 overall license then?
25 THE WITNESS: Correct.
41
1 MR. FAASSE: But does the FCC come out
2 after this scene is constructed and say,
okay, it meets
3 our standards, or do they rely on the
operator's
4 certification?
5 THE WITNESS: Inside your market area
6 you're able to utilize your
frequencies. I mean, there
7 are some stipulations that as you get closer
to the
8 market borders if you don't own the next
market then
9 you have to corner your market border. But in general
10 inside your market you're allowed to manage
the use of
11 your frequencies as an operator.
12 MR. FAASSE: But nobody comes out to check
13 it?
14 THE WITNESS: There are FCC requirements.
15 Like, for example, the equipment that is
purchased by
16 Verizon must meet FCC type acceptance
requirements,
17 which they thoroughly test equipment which
does comply
18 with all FCC regulations. So before the equipment is
19 turned on the equipment passes the FCC
requirements.
20 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: But who does the
21 testing, Verizon themselves or an FCC
tester?
22 THE WITNESS: In this area they utilize
23 Lucent Technologies. Lucent Technologies certifies
24 their equipment with the FCC.
25 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Once it's installed
42
1 does anyone come and check it to make sure
that it's
2 within compliance with that certification?
3 THE WITNESS: Verizon, once it comes on
4 air, Lucent activates the site, does a test
on the site
5 and --
6 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: So Lucent tests it?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
And then Verizon tests
8 it in addition. After Lucent hands it over Verizon
9 will also test it to make sure it's working
properly
10 with the surrounding sites.
11 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: And then they submit
12 the test results to the FCC for their
approval?
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: You just keep a copy
15 on file in case they ever ask?
16 THE WITNESS: Correct.
17 MR. STILWELL: The Federal regulations in
18 this area they broadcast energy so low, the
Federal
19 Communications Commission doesn't require us
to perform
20 any kind of test after we build these
things; nor do
21 they require us to get a second license for
each site,
22 they simply require us to tell them when we
turn a site
23 on.
And that's the only notification that we give to
24 the FCC.
And they have totally preempted this field,
25 and that's the way they handle it because
the power up
43
1 was just so low. They don't consider there's any
2 reason why they would need to test them.
3 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: Have you ever tested
4 a site or your company ever tested a site
where you
5 propose -- like, for instance, this one you
have a
6 0.06, have you ever put up a site where you
figured it
7 was going to be this and then tested it
afterwards just
8 to see how close you were?
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
We frequently do that.
10
With this RF emission formula that we utilize, which is
11 an FCC formula to predict the RF emission
field
12 strength we do a lot of measurements. And in general
13 the FCC formula is designed to be very conservative. A
14 lot of times when we perform the
measurements it's
15 actually a lot lower.
16 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: Your reality is lower
17 than your projection?
18 THE WITNESS: Correct.
19 MR. FAASSE: Lucent doesn't exist anymore;
20 is that right?
21 THE WITNESS: They merged with Alcatel,
22 Alcatel-/Lucent now.
23 MR. FAASSE: It's a French company.
24 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Any questions,
25 gentlemen?
44
1 MR. FAASSE:
How many witnesses?
2 MR. STILWELL: Three.
He was two of them.
3 We have two more.
4 MR. GREGOR: Does he get paid twice?
5 MR. FAASSE: Why don't we open up to the
6 public with the understanding that there's
going to be
7 other areas covered by the other experts so
we don't
8 have any control over that. But...
9 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Well, if the public
10 asks a question that you feel is better
answered by the
11 engineer or architect just defer that until
after he
12 gives his testimony.
13 MR. FAASSE: And the public is coming up
14 here for questions only. No statements at this time.
15 Okay?
16 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Open up to the public.
17 Does anyone have any questions of this
witness?
18 MR. FAASSE: For the record, give us your
19 full name.
20 MR. DaSILVA: David DaSilva, 108 Monroe
21 Street, Haskell.
22 BY MR. STILWELL: Where?
I'm sorry.
23 MR. DaSILVA: Haskell.
Part of Wanaque.
24 What types of problems are
current Verizon
25 customers complaining of about when they're
either in
45
1 Wanaque or traveling through Wanaque?
2 THE WITNESS: I don't have customer
3 information prepared. So I can't answer that.
4 MR. DaSILVA: This is just a theoretical
5 assumption that these things, based upon
your tests,
6 you don't know for sure that standing in one
place a
7 person doesn't have service and in another
place they
8 do have service?
9 THE WITNESS: The standard Verizon uses for
10 reliable service they have developed through
a lot of
11 testing in all areas. In addition, we performed the
12 measurements in this area, and so it's not
just a
13 theoretical number.
14 MR. DaSILVA: I read somewhere that you
15 guys want 98 percent or 99 percent. So it's the ideal,
16 it's not necessarily reality?
17 THE WITNESS: Correct.
It's a level of
18 service that -- it's quality service that
Verizon and
19 their customers can encounter on working
when you're in
20 that area that all the services for their
phone devices
21 are guaranteed they will work.
22 MR. DaSILVA: What's the maximum dB loss a
23 hand-held unit needs to function?
24 THE WITNESS: It depends on the area, the
25 noise level, the environmental noise. Like I said,
46
1 their quality is designed for a path loss of
115 dB.
2 That's where the voice calls to be able to
handle calls
3 outside the cars and in buildings. I would have to
4 look up what the absolute maximum is. It depends on
5 weather, the device, the area.
6 MR. DaSILVA: So like 200, 150?
7 THE WITNESS: No, it wouldn't be that high.
8 I don't know how.
9 MR. DaSILVA: How many calls are handled by
10 the three towers that are closest to us now
per day?
11 THE WITNESS: The three on-air Verizon
12 towers?
13 MR. DaSILVA: Yes.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't have traffic data
15 prepared.
This area is not necessarily a high capacity
16 area where a lot of the sites are built
because they're
17 out of capacity, that's not the case
here. This is
18 primarily a case where Verizon is looking to
enhance
19 the coverage. So this additional coverage is being
20 provided by the site in the center.
21 MR. DaSILVA: So you don't know if there's
22 actually, if there's a hundred calls per
hour on each
23 hour, you don't know if five percent of
those are lost,
24 what percent of those are dropped?
25 THE WITNESS: I don't have traffic data.
47
1 MR. DaSILVA: So there's no data at all
2 about whether or not anybody in Wanaque has
ever lost a
3 call or dropped a call?
4 THE WITNESS: I'm not saying that's not the
5 case.
I just haven't analyzed that and prepared this
6 today.
7 MR. DaSILVA:
Do you know how many calls
8 they're proposing for the new tower per day?
9 THE WITNESS: The new structure would be
10 able to handle at least 200 simultaneous
calls --
11 excuse me, at least four -- I'd say 400
simultaneous
12 calls at full capacity.
13 MR. DaSILVA: What about the three that are
14 existing, how many of the three existing,
how many can
15
those handle per day?
16 THE WITNESS: Which three?
17 MR. DaSILVA: The three closest to the one
18 you're proposing. I see a triangle.
19 THE WITNESS: Those similarly they would
20 handle about the same capacity.
21 MR. DaSILVA: Is there any other way of
22 filling this apparent gap than putting the
tower there
23 at the proposed site?
24 THE WITNESS: This proposed location is
25 ideal.
As you see, it's centered pretty much on these
48
1 three sites that are just outside the
town. And to
2 provide excellent quality service to all
these
3 buildings and roads in this area there are
no other
4 existing facilities that would be able to
handle the
5 antennas.
6 MR. DaSILVA: If this does not get approved
7 how will it affect the Verizon Wireless
network?
8 THE WITNESS: If it does not get approved
9 it will remain the way it is today, which
was on the
10 previous exhibit where there's spotty
coverage in the
11 town, and it's significantly less than the
level of
12 reliable service is showing on this Exhibit
A-2.
13 MR. DaSILVA: There's no way of using any
14 other company's towers that are currently
existing to
15 patch a call if there's a drop?
16 THE WITNESS: No.
There's no provision to
17 use a competitor's tower, if you're
suggesting that,
18 no.
19 MR. DaSILVA: Do you know if any other
20 personal wireless providers have the same
problems that
21 you guys are seeing in Wanaque?
22 THE WITNESS: Well, there are two operators
23 on the current site, they don't have the
same problem.
24 But if there are others besides those two,
I'm not
25 aware of that.
49
1 MR. DaSILVA: And the pole right outside
2 here there's no way to build this unit
somewhere on
3 this site here?
4 THE WITNESS: No.
From what I'm told
5 there's no available space. This is at capacity, so
6 we're not able to locate our antennas at
this pole.
7 MR. DaSILVA: What if you built another
8 structure?
9 THE WITNESS: You mean here instead of the
10 other location?
11 MR. DaSILVA: Yes.
12 THE WITNESS: We have to see what the
13 difference between this ground elevation is
between
14 this exact location and the other, in
addition to the
15 ground space for the base station building.
16 MR. STILWELL: Technically, though?
17 THE WITNESS: Technically, the ground
18 elevation in addition to the antenna
elevation were
19 similar and the location is fairly similar about
a
20 block away, the coverage should be
similar. So, you
21 know, from a technical standpoint in theory
if you
22 could locate the Verizon antennas at that
height it
23 would work at this location equally as well.
24 MR. DaSILVA: If the Board decided it
25 wanted the information on the network
traffic and the
50
1 actual dropped calls and the complaints from
customers
2 you could provide that?
3 THE WITNESS: That's usually proprietary.
4 MR. STILWELL: We generally consider that
5 to be proprietary.
6 THE WITNESS: It's a very competitive
7 industry.
8 MR. FAASSE: Proprietary?
Isn't that what
9 you're basing your whole case on, the need?
10 MR. STILWELL: We believe the need's
11 demonstrated by the operational path loss
standard to
12 be utilized.
13 THE WITNESS: I mean, not everyone calls
14 when they drop a call. They don't report it. You
15 know, 99 percent of the time people don't
report it or
16 more.
So, you know, there's tools that we use to show
17 whether there is reliable service and where
there is
18 not.
19 MR. DaSILVA: Okay.
I just heard someone
20 else mention another carrier has a way of
analyzing
21 that internally if you have a dropped call
or
22 something.
Verizon has no way of figuring that out?
23 And if this approval was relying upon
Verizon providing
24 information -- I guess this isn't for you,
it's more of
25 a legal.
51
1 THE WITNESS: Right.
When you're outside
2 your area, for example, you're right in the
middle here
3 and you don't have service, you drop a call,
the
4 network doesn't necessarily tell you
that. If you're
5 in an area where you were being served by
the network
6 and you drove just outside the area then
that would be
7 indicated.
So sometimes you know, sometimes you don't.
8 MR. DaSILVA: So as subscribers to Verizon
9 Wireless all the charts that have been given
are based
10 upon computer models and the measurement of
the dB loss
11 not actually used?
12 THE WITNESS: Well, the standard is based
13 on the actual use that Verizon has for its
entire
14 network.
To measure the signal strength measures how
15 far you are from that standard.
16 MR. DaSILVA: So those maps they provide us
17 are based upon that number and not upon
actual use?
18 THE WITNESS: You're referring to the maps
19 you get from the --
20 MR. DaSILVA: Yes, with different colors.
21 THE WITNESS: When you purchase your
22 service.
Yeah, those maps do have a number.
There's a
23 lot of fine print, if you read those maps at
the
24 bottom.
So depends on the assumptions they're using,
25 but I would expect service to be -- I don't
have one of
52
1 those maps handy; nor did I look at one
before I came
2 out here.
So...
3 MR. DaSILVA: Okay.
Thanks.
4 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Coming forward.
5 MR. FAASSE: You have to give us your full
6 name, spell your last.
7 MR. AMIELLO: John Amiello, Jr., 26 Colfax
8 Avenue.
Now, this actually is going to eliminate dead
9 spots?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 MR. AMIELLO: And what's happening is we
12 have this tower right out here --
13 MR. FAASSE: You can't testify, you have to
14 ask a question.
15 MR. AMIELLO: Okay.
There's a tower out
16 here, it won't cause any competition to this
tower?
17 THE WITNESS: Excuse me?
18 MR. AMIELLO: This tower right here for
19 Sprint, it won't cause any --
20 MR. FAASSE: Interference?
21 THE WITNESS: No.
There's no interference
22 between the proposed facility and this
Sprint tower,
23 absolutely not.
24 MR. AMIELLO: Not only that, there are
25 certain dead spots in this area which this
will
53
1 eliminate?
2 THE WITNESS: Correct.
3 MR. AMIELLO: That's basically why you're
4 putting this in here?
5 THE WITNESS: Right.
6 MR. AMIELLO: That's basically why Sprint
7 puts it up here and takes away dead spots.
8 THE WITNESS: Correct.
9 MR. AMIELLO: I don't see any reason why
10 you should have any more problems than
Sprint had in
11 putting this one here. Because they put this one here
12 with no problems. I would hope you won't have the same
13 problems.
14 MR. FAASSE: It sounds like a statement,
15 not a question. It's not evidential until after the
16 public speaks and I have to swear him in.
17 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Before, I have one
18 request.
Do you avail the use of your towers for
19 repeaters and things like that to augment
the emergency
20 management local, you know, radio
communications?
21 THE WITNESS:
Verizon typically collocates
22 on towers.
They don't typically own -- I'm not sure if
23 they own the tower. Usually they have a tower firm
24 such as Crown or a tower company that will
build the
25 tower for them. And they'll encourage collocation as
54
1 much as possible, whether that be emergency
services or
2 another carrier.
3 MR. FAASSE: The question is, are they
4 going to give free space to the municipality
for the
5 police department --
6 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Police, sheriff's
7 department.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
9 MR. FAASSE: That's beyond your expertise?
10 MR. STILWELL: I've been advised that we
11 can provide the space to the emergency
services.
12 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: You will provide the
13 space?
14 MR. STILWELL: Yes.
15 MR. FAASSE: They could?
16 MR. STILWELL: We can make that a condition
17 of approval.
18 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Anyone from the public
19 have any other questions of this
witness? I close the
20 public portion. Oh, okay.
21 MR. LUCIANI: Tom Luciani, 11 Belmont
22 Avenue, Wanaque. I am within 100 feet of this proposed
23 tower that these gentleman are putting
up. The
24 pictures that they showed were not available
to the
25 other people in the back. He was talking to you, which
55
1 I understand, but we're the ones who are
being affected
2 by this and we wanted to see it.
3 MR. FAASSE: We're sorry.
You should have
4 brought that to our attention. Immediately after your
5 questioning we'll take a recess so anyone
from the
6
public can see these two exhibits.
We apologize for
7 that.
8 MR. LUCIANI: When you tested the tower
9 what was the atmospheric conditions?
10 THE WITNESS: It was mild.
It wasn't
11 raining, so it was just a normal day. At this
12 frequency range there is not a lot of impact
to the
13 radio propagation. So in some frequency ranges, at
14 higher frequency ranges there is more of an
impact. So
15 even if it had been raining there wouldn't
have been an
16 impact to the measurements performed.
17 MR. LUCIANI: How many times did you test
18 the site?
19 THE WITNESS: Three times.
20 MR. LUCIANI: Three times.
And you got the
21 same readings at all the times?
22 THE WITNESS: We performed the one
23 measurement at each height. There were three heights
24 measured, the proposed height, 20 feet
higher and
25 20 feet lower.
56
1 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
It was all the same
2 day, it wasn't three different times?
3 THE WITNESS: Correct.
4 MR. LUCIANI: So it could have been for
5 whatever reasons affecting us, that you may
not have
6 gotten the same reading one day as you may
have the
7 next?
8 THE WITNESS: Well, day-to-day the
9 atmospheric conditions will not impact the
results.
10 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
You're the expert, but
11 I beg to differ, because I have a cell phone
and I use
12 it quite often. And the atmosphere pressure and
13 weather conditions do affect it greatly.
14 THE WITNESS: You know where there's a
15 slight effect, in the seasons. You know, when there's
16 more leaves on trees that can have a slight
effect or
17 attenuation to the signal. If there's very high rain
18 there can be a very slight effect. They could have
19 loading effects which you can't see on the
network.
20 Even though you have some bars on your cell
phone you
21 can't see the loading effects. That does have a big
22 effect in service. So there's a number of factors that
23 would affect service.
24 MR. FAASSE: Mr. Witness, define loading in
25 that --
57
1 THE WITNESS: As I mentioned earlier, the
2 peak busy hour for the network is
approximately 4 to 6
3 p.m., and then it rises up again to the same
level
4 about 8 to 10 p.m. at night where that's the
highest
5 number of calls it would typically serve in
the
6 network.
And the other times it's slightly lower.
So
7 that the higher the loading, the more number
of calls
8 on the network, the coverage shrinks a
little bit.
9 MR. FAASSE: Will that affect the bars that
10 you see on your telephone?
11 THE WITNESS: It won't necessarily affect
12 the bars, but it will affect the service.
13 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: So you're saying at
14 the higher loading point the antenna is
handling more
15 calls?
16 THE WITNESS: Correct.
17 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: At that point?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 MR. STILWELL: And the coverage area
20 shrinks?
21 THE WITNESS: Correct.
22 MR. LUCIANI: Was this test done at a peak
23 time?
24 THE WITNESS: Well, this -- the loading
25 goes into the Verizon standard that they set
for
58
1 reliable service. So when we performed measurements of
2 the operational path loss it's independent
of the
3 loading, because loading is already built
into the
4 standard and that's what we were measuring
too.
5 MR. STILWELL: Is that a worst-case
6 scenario?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
It's a highly loaded
8 network where it's fully at capacity.
9 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
Also, you had
10 mentioned that this pole that you're going
to build is
11 28 feet higher than the existing pole here
that we have
12 now.
However, you also stated that that was necessary
13 because of your frequencies, or I believe
that you
14 needed to be higher.
15 THE WITNESS: We performed drive test
16 measurements 20 feet lower than this
height. We're
17 proposing -- the currently proposed height
is 135 feet
18 to the top of the pole. 20 feet lower would be 115
19 feet.
That showed a decrease in coverage to the south
20 and to the north that would open up areas
further than
21 as indicated in this exhibit. So we did feel that we
22 need at least 135 feet at this location.
23 We also tested at 155 feet and
there is a
24 very small improvement there. We didn't see a need to
25 extend the height any further.
59
1 MR. LUCIANI: But, again, you also said
2 that you would use this tower if there was
space
3 available?
4 THE WITNESS: If there was space available
5 at the same height as proposed at this
facility, which
6 this tower is only 103 feet, so it's much
smaller.
7 MR. STILWELL: Our architect will testify
8
to the height of the tower.
9 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
But what I'm saying
10 is, you're saying that you need 128 or
whatever, you
11 need 28 feet more than what this tower was,
but yet you
12 were willing to use this tower if you had
the
13 availability of the antenna space?
14 THE WITNESS: No.
Even if it was available
15 at 103, which it's not, it still would be
inferior and
16 not show the coverage that we're showing up
here and
17 have more gap in service to the south and to
the north.
18 So it would be available from an RF
standpoint, even if
19 it was constructible, which I'm told it's
not.
20 MR. LUCIANI: Also, is it possible to share
21 network services with other carriers?
22 THE WITNESS: It's possible to share towers
23 with other carriers, not frequencies, not
networks. I
24 mean.
Only Verizon is licensed to use their frequency
25 band.
Their FCC license requires them to build out a
60
1 network and provide service on their
frequency band.
2 MR. LUCIANI: Because you're a different
3 frequency, however, I've read articles where
in
4 different areas where there is no service they
share
5 service with other carriers.
6 THE WITNESS: There are some carriers that
7 when you're roaming they would roam onto
another
8 network where they don't have any service at
all.
9
Verizon has service and frequencies in this area. And
10 the experience the user would get would be
spotty
11 service, as is indicated in there. And a lack of
12 service in a lot of the areas in Wanaque, as
we
13 indicated in our first exhibit.
14 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
What would be the
15 overall size of the structure?
16 THE WITNESS: To the top of the structure
17 135 feet.
18 MR. STILWELL: Our architect will give you
19 the exact dimensions.
20 MR. LUCIANI: And that is also with the
21 building?
22 MR. STILWELL: Our architect will give you
23 the exact dimensions.
24 MR. LUCIANI: Okay.
That's all I have.
25 Thank you.
61
1 MR. STILWELL: Did you want to take a
2 break?
3 MR. FAASSE: Is there anyone else who has a
4 question of this witness?
5 MR. MAZZOLA: Bob Mazzola, 20-22 Erie.
6 Right across from the tower. I just would like to know
7 if there are any other locations in town
that you
8 looked at?
9 THE WITNESS: Besides the two I mentioned
10 earlier.
The pole right here on this property, and the
11 water tank much further to the south, there
really were
12 no other existing structures. This particular property
13 was submitted by the real estate and was in
a perfect
14 location and it was approved. So there's no other
15 property considered.
16 MR. MAZZOLA: Did you look at the reservoir
17 location?
18 THE WITNESS: There was no other property
19 that was submitted that I'm aware of.
20 MR. STILWELL: This witness would not
21 have -- this witness, his firm only analyzes
sites that
22 they're given by site acquisition people.
23 MR. FAASSE: Answer to the question,
24 there's no other sites that they looked at,
okay.
25 That's what his testimony is, right?
62
1 MR. STILWELL: That will be another
2 witness' testimony, as a proffer I make
that.
3 MR. FAASSE: All right.
Any other
4 questions?
5 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: I have another
6 question.
I'm sorry.
7 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Does anyone else in the
8 public have any questions of this witness?
9 (No response.)
10 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Okay.
Let's close the
11 public portion. Ed, you have another question?
12 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Yes.
Going back to
13 the first exhibit, is it safe to say, and is
it your
14 testimony, that this tower's going to handle
continuous
15 400 calls?
16 THE WITNESS: Simultaneous calls?
17 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: Simultaneous calls.
18 Is it safe to say, I mean, there's 10,000
people in
19 Wanaque, roughly. Let's say ten years from now
20 everybody goes wireless -- let me ask it a
different
21 way.
We put the tower in, is it safe to say ten years
22 from now if every household goes wireless
that there's
23 going to be a need for another tower in
Wanaque?
24 THE WITNESS: We don't anticipate. This is
25 not an urban or dense urban area. You can also put in
63
1 additional radios that would extend that 400
continuous
2 calls to 600 to 700 continuous calls.
3 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: On the same tower?
4 THE WITNESS: Yes.
Same tower, same
5 antennas, correct. So you could extend that further
6
with putting more radios in.
7 MR. STILWELL: There's a whole thing called
8 traffic analysis.
9 THE WITNESS: Right.
Traffic efficiency,
10 and not everyone is making a call at the
same time. So
11 statistically it averages out and you handle
the load
12 -- this is not at capacity for the site at
all.
13 MR. STILWELL: They measured the capacity
14 in ehrlangs.
15 THE WITNESS: Ehrlangs.
16 MR. STILWELL: Measurement called Ehrlangs
17 used in the same kind of mathematics as
traffic studies
18 used for highways.
19 THE WITNESS: Correct.
20 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: My question was --
21 but as other, like broadband, other services
ramp up,
22 how does that affect the load? Does the voice affect
23 the load more or would the other services
affect the
24 load more?
25 THE WITNESS: The high speed data that
64
1 Verizon is rolling out is on a different
channel. So
2 it would be independent of the voice. So it would not
3 have an impact to the voice.
4 MR. FAASSE: Now, just as a follow up, if
5 this tower were to be constructed and become
6 operational it would meet Verizon's needs
throughout
7 the entire municipality in Wanaque?
8 THE WITNESS: Right.
The ability
9 objectives of this search area provides
excellent
10 coverage for this whole entire service area
of Wanaque,
11 and there are no other sites planned in this
area to --
12 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: To fill the white
13 spots?
14 THE WITNESS: Correct.
There are some
15 areas, for example, on the other side of
large
16 mountains that, you know, would not have
coverage, it
17 would be spotty at best. So in some of this area there
18 may not even be people that need or want
service in
19 this area.
So...
20 MR. FAASSE: You don't rent to bears yet?
21 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: That area got whited out
22 there, that's basically where the state park
sits.
23 THE WITNESS: This is 500 foot.
24 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Just to the east of it
25
you've got a lake on that map, Ramapo Lakes.
65
1 THE WITNESS: Right.
2 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: That's all a state park,
3 so there's no real residency anyhow.
4 THE WITNESS: Right.
5 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: The other side is, I can
6 read it from here, a lot of it is the water
runs from
7 the Wanaque reservoir, just from the north.
8 THE WITNESS: As you can see there are two
9 pretty high peaks to the north that had some
problem
10 extending above that. Other areas where you don't have
11
that extends over the water very nicely and stops right
12 at the peaks that are just further west of
that.
13 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: But most of that is part
14 of the watershed, right?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
This is all the Wanaque
16 Reservoir.
17 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: So, basically, what
18 you're doing, your testimony is that by
putting the
19 tower between the north tower and your south
tower
20 you're covering the valley of Wanaque where
the people
21 live?
22 THE WITNESS: Correct.
23 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Is that what you're
24 trying to say?
25 THE WITNESS: Correct.
Provide the best
66
1 service where the people are.
2 MR. FAASSE: People fishing.
3 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Okay.
We'll take a
4 two-minute break.
5 MR. FAASSE: We're going to take a break.
6 If there's anyone from the public that would
like to
7 see A-1 or A-2 please come forward, have
those
8 available.
9 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Next set of exhibits
10 let's put them on this side of the room so
everyone can
11 see.
12 (Brief recess at 9:38 p.m.)
13 (Back on the record at 9:50
p.m.)
14 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Before we go on, we have
15 an 11 o'clock curfew. We like to --
16 MR. STILWELL: How about we cut off at
17 10:30?
18 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Maybe we'll be done
19 before then.
20 MR. STILWELL: We might be.
21 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Let the record reflect
22 that everyone is present that was present
before on
23 break.
24 MR. FAASSE: Okay.
25 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Chairman --
67
1 MR. FAASSE: Before we go on, everyone has
2 had the opportunity to look at A-1 and
A-2? Are there
3 any questions for the last witness based on
your review
4 of those two documents?
5 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: From the public?
6 MR. FAASSE: From the public.
7 (No response.)
8 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Colasurdo?
9 Do you keep the exhibits?
10 MR. GREGOR: We marked them.
11 MR. FAASSE: We marked them A-1 and A-2.
12 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: We're accepting them.
13 MR. FAASSE: No, we're not accepting the
14 report, it's not signed.
15 BOARD MEMBER KONING: Can we place the
16 diagram over there so the public can see?
17 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: So we can see instead
18 of you?
19 F R A N K
C O L A S U R D O, 33 Woodport Road,
20 Sparta, New Jersey, having been duly sworn,
testifies
21 as follows:
22 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. STILWELL:
23 Q.
Mr. Colasurdo, will you advise the Board as
24 to your background and professional
qualifications,
25 please?
68
1 A.
I'm a licensed architect in the state of
2 New Jersey.
Currently hold a license in architecture
3 in the state of New Jersey. For the last 14 years I've
4 been designing cell sites for several
wireless
5 telecommunications, including Verizon
Wireless,
6 designing the site plans, testifying in
front of
7 municipalities throughout the state, and
eventually
8 preparing construction documents, if
approved by the
9 various Boards throughout the state.
10 MR. STILWELL: Does the Board accept Mr.
11 Colasurdo as a licensed architect?
12 MR. FAASSE: I have a question: Your New
13 Jersey license as an architect, is it in
good force and
14
effect as of today?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
16 MR. STILWELL: You asked everybody that
17 question.
18 MR. FAASSE: I do.
You know what? Because
19 it came back to bite me one time. I didn't ask and I
20 ran it out on the web site, the guy hadn't
paid his
21 fee.
22 BY MR. STILWELL:
23 Q.
All right. Mr. Colasurdo, was it
your firm
24 that prepared the plans that are before the
Board this
25 evening?
69
1 A.
That's correct.
2 Q.
And can you describe the last revision date
3 of those plans? And then we're going to talk about the
4 existing conditions, the proposed
improvements, and the
5 proposed change to the site.
6 A.
Okay.
7 Q.
Up on my easel I have a sheet which I refer
8 to as sheet Z-3?
9 A.
In the lower left-hand corner it's dated
10 12/21/06, and it says revision three, lot
line
11 adjustment exhibit.
12 Q.
Okay. Can we just clarify that
that is an
13 exhibit that you've prepared for this
hearing? You
14 submitted it to the Board Engineer but we
did not file
15 it with the Board because we would not have
been able
16 to do that at least ten days prior to the
hearing?
17 A.
That's correct.
18 Q.
This is an exhibit that we're introducing
19 this evening.
20 MR. FAASSE: Which is a revision of the
21 prior exhibit?
22 MR. STILWELL: Exactly.
23 MR. FAASSE: Right?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes. I
have my original site
25 plans here that were filed with the
application.
70
1 MR. FAASSE: Just give us the old date on
2 Z-3 prior to the 12/21 revision.
3 THE WITNESS: 8/09/06.
There was a
4 revision in between dated 12/12/06, which
addressed the
5 township comments, but I don't believe those
were ever
6 received by the Board. Again, I was using that as an
7 exhibit at the last hearing, but I didn't
get a chance
8 to testify.
9 BY MR. STILWELL:
10 Q.
All right. Will you describe the
existing
11 conditions and the proposed improvements?
12 A.
The existing conditions, for the record,
13 it's 10 Villa Place, Block 999, Lot 4. It's currently
14 owned by the Golden Agers. The facility is run by the
15 Golden Agers, it's run by the seniors. It's an odd
16 shaped lot.
I need to go back to an earlier --
17 MR. GREGOR: Mr. Colasurdo, can I just ask
18 a favor of you for one moment? In that there is a
19 formally known as in your title block, since
this Block
20 999, Lot 4 you're referring to is not
currently shown
21 on any tax maps in the Borough, would you
give the --
22 for the benefit of the Board give the
previous lot and
23 block number?
24 THE WITNESS: It was formally known as
25 Block 237.01, Lot 1.01.
71
1 MR. GREGOR: Thank you very much.
2 THE WITNESS: I just want to find one
3 exhibit here to help me explain the lot as
it currently
4 exists.
5 BY MR. STILWELL:
6 Q.
Since you colored that in Mr. Colasurdo
7 we're going to need to mark that.
8 (Whereupon, A-4, site plan and
bulk chart,
9 was received and marked in evidence.)
10 Q.
Other than the coloring that is the same as
11 what was contained in the Board's package?
12 A.
That's correct. Exhibit A-4.
13 MR. FAASSE: No, I understand that, but...
14 MR. STILWELL: Z-3, site plan and bulk
15 chart.
16 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Is that before you?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes.
It's the site plan and
18 bulk chart, site plan Z-3, which is last
dated 8/02/06.
19 This is the site plan that was
submitted
20 with the original application. What I've done is in
21 pink I've highlighted the property lines as
they
22 currently exist per deed, and most recently
a survey
23 that my company had prepared. What's important here,
24 and why I want to use this to start off with
is you can
25 see this section of the property. This is really Villa
72
1 Place.
And that's the section of the property that is
2 going to be deeded back to the town. We're taking this
3 section of the existing Golden Ager's
property, giving
4 it back to the town. So the Golden Agers will not own
5 that road or have any responsibility for
that road. I
6 wanted to point that out, because the next
Z-3 I'm
7 going to show has that lot line adjustment.
8 MR. FAASSE: Just for the record, you're
9 pointing to a certain area of the
exhibit. Can you
10 describe it in some way? Is it the
11 north/south/east/west portion of the
property? Does it
12 go the entire length of the property?
13 THE WITNESS: On Exhibit A-4 the area that
14
I'm referring to is just below C-1, labeled C-1.
15 MR. FAASSE: It's on the north side of the
16 parcel?
17 THE WITNESS: It's on the west side of the
18 parcel.
19 MR. GREGOR: Could you just, to the Board,
20 describe what the width of that parcel is
that you're
21 dedicating, so approximately 50 feet?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
Approximately 52 feet
23 by 469 feet.
24 MR. GREGOR: Thank you very much.
25 THE WITNESS: Back to Z-3 last dated
73
1 12/21/06.
Do you want to mark this so I can just --
2 MR. STILWELL: Might as well.
3 MR. FAASSE: That's going to be A-5.
4 THE WITNESS: This is a new exhibit.
5 MR. STILWELL:
That's going to be A-5,
6 Exhibit A-5.
7 (Exhibit A-5, site plan with
bold property
8 lines, is received and marked in evidence.)
9 THE WITNESS: Now I'm back to A-5. And A-5
10 is the same site plan, but in the bold dark
line is the
11 property lines that will eventually occur
through the
12 deeds, and so on and so forth. So what we're going to
13 be left with is a very long parcel that runs
south to
14 north.
Villa Place will front it. And
there's a
15 vacant lot in the rear.
16 It is developed within an existing
17 one-story building for the Golden
Agers. That building
18 is approximately 4,500 square feet. Majority of the
19 lot or remainder of the lot is parking and
circulation
20 for traffic cars. Verizon is proposing a wireless
21 telecommunications facility. We're proposing that
22 facility approximately 69 feet from Villa
Place, east
23 of Villa Place.
24 What is a wireless
telecommunications
25 facility?
You have one right outside. I
want to go
74
1 over some characteristics. It's designed to be
2 unmanned, which means there will not be
permanent
3 employees there. Not having permanent employees it
4 does not require potable water, and it will
not produce
5 sewerage.
But not having permanent employees it does
6 not mean it will not be watched. It is monitored
7 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week with a
part of
8 equipment that's installed at the base of
tower. So
9 there's nobody about there with the
exception of a
10 routine maintenance visit every four to six
weeks by a
11 Verizon technician, but it's watched all the
time.
12 Other characters --
13 MR. FAASSE: Watched or monitored? There's
14 no video?
15 THE WITNESS: That's correct. It's
16 alarmed.
There's an alarm system that runs through the
17 telephone wire.
18 It does not require any potable
water. It
19 does not produce any sewerage. It will not produce any
20 traffic, or any increased traffic. It won't produce
21 any glare, smoke, noise or odor. It's a very benign
22 type of use.
23 Q.
What's the location of the -- where's the
24 compound on the site?
25 A.
The compound is located just about 60 feet
75
1 from Villa Place dead center in the middle
of the
2 property north of the existing Golden Ager's
building.
3 There's actually two parking lots: One is on the south
4 side of the Golden Ager's building, and
there's a
5 parking lot on the north side. We're proposing a small
6 50 by 30 raised island to locate our
compound.
7 Q.
Can you discuss the bulk requirements as
8 modified by the new configuration?
9 A.
Sure. Minimum lot size for this
zone is
10 400 acres.
We do reduce that with the lot line
11 adjustment, the lot line adjustment is
reducing that.
12
Verizon's application is not, but the lot line
13 adjustment is reducing it. Currently, the site is
14 1.869 acres.
With this lot line adjustment it's going
15 to be roughly 1.3427 acres. Minimum lot frontage is
16 500 feet.
Currently, there's 997 plus or minus feet.
17 We're not changing that with the lot line
adjustment.
18 That's staying the same.
19 Minimum property line
setback. It's always
20
been 100 feet. Currently, the
existing clubhouse is
21 22.30 feet from the property line. It's the closest
22 dimension.
Verizon is proposing 6.7, 6 feet 7 inches
23 to the equipment shelter, then 10 feet 8
inches to the
24 proposed monopole. I think it's important to note that
25 once this lot line adjustment has been made
the overall
76
1 width of the property -- depth of the
property, the new
2 depth is approximately 101 feet. So you can never meet
3 a 100-foot setback in a zone before or even
after the
4 lot
line adjustment.
5 Maximum building coverage: We're
6 increasing it slightly. Currently, before the lot line
7 adjustment, it was at 5.61, after the lot
line
8 adjustment the -- I'm sorry, this is
building coverage.
9 After the lot line adjustment it will be
7.807 percent.
10 We'd be increasing that to 8.43 percent,
which is a
11 result of a 360 square foot equipment
shelter that I'll
12 bring up in a minute for you.
13 In regards to lot coverage we're
actually
14 decreasing that, because we're taking a
section of the
15 parking lot that is currently asphalt and
we're
16 replacing it with gravel. So we're removing some
17 impervious coverage.
18 And in regards to building
height, maximum
19 building height in this zone, 85 feet,
existing Golden
20 Ager's club is 18 feet. The top of our equipment
21 shelter we're proposing is 11 feet 3. And the top of
22 the concealment monopole is 135 feet. So there's
23 another variance there. I want to move onto the
24 equipment.
25 Q.
Before you do that, I just want to ask you
77
1 another question about the highlands, and
whether or
2 not you can point out the salient features
or issues
3 with respect to the highlands?
4 A.
This property, the subject property, the
5 eastern property line, which I would
consider the rear
6 property line, that's actually the dividing
line
7 between the preservation area, which would
be to the
8 east, and the planned area, which would be
to the west.
9 So we're -- the subject parcel's located in
the planned
10 area.
11 Q.
If it was in the preservation area we might
12 not be able to build?
13 A.
Correct.
14 Q.
Okay. And that's true of the
preservation
15 area throughout Wanaque?
16 A.
Yes. It's got certain
stipulations that
17 you have to meet. Okay.
Sheet Z-4, I wonder if we
18 should mark this one as well?
19 (Exhibit A-6, detail site plan
and site
20 elevation, is received and marked in
evidence.)
21 MR. FAASSE: For the record, A-6 is?
22 THE WITNESS: A-6 is entitled detail site
23 plan and site elevation, last dated 8/09/06
in the
24 lower left-hand corner.
25 MR. FAASSE: 8/9/06?
78
1 THE WITNESS: 8/09/06, yes.
2 BY MR. STILWELL:
3 Q.
So there were no changes to the sheet
4 between what's in the Board's package and
what we're
5 presenting this evening?
6 A.
Actually, there were some changes.
7 Q.
Okay.
8 A.
And they're labeled as revision one.
These
9 changes on this sheet, specifically, address
some of
10 the Board engineer's comments that I
received via
11 e-mail.
One, being a drainage issue; one, being the
12 width of an aisle that I had labeled at 14
feet 8
13 inches, I changed to 15 feet. They wanted -- the Board
14 engineer wanted to see the dimension between
the
15 proposed parking spots and the existing,
which I've
16 labeled it 24 feet, but this particular plan
is an
17 enlarged site plan of the area we plan to
develop.
18 What it depicts is an approximately
50-foot-by-30-foot
19 raised area, raised with a concrete
curb. It's an area
20 that will be filled with gravel as it's
finished,
21 completely fenced in. Inside that area Verizon is
22 proposing a 12-foot by 30-foot equipment
shelter and a
23 monopole.
24 MR. FAASSE: What's the size of the
25 equipment facility?
79
1 THE WITNESS: Say that again?
2 MR. STILWELL: The equipment facility,
3 what's the size?
4 THE WITNESS:
The compound, what we refer
5 to the compound?
6 MR. FAASSE: No, just the building.
7 THE WITNESS: The building is 12-feet wide,
8 30-feet long, and 11-feet 3 high is the top
above the
9 grade.
10 I need to go to Sheet Z-5, which
is part of
11 your package, which has not been changed
since the
12 original submission. In the upper left-hand corner
13 some elevations on the equipment
shelter. This is a
14 prefabricated structure. It's preinspected by the
15 state of New Jersey. And inside this equipment shelter
16 is the Verizon radio coax. It's the radio coax that
17 generates signals to the antennas. It's generally a
18 stone aggregate finish, relatively flat
roof, two
19 air-conditioning units, and a portal, coax
portal I'll
20 explain in a minute. And, again, it's designed to be
21 unmanned so there's no water with this
building or
22 sewer lines.
23 BY MR. STILWELL:
24 Q.
Why air-conditioning?
25 A.
The equipment inside needs to stay cool.
80
1 We need to maintain a temperature of about
72 degrees
2 inside.
3 MR. FAASSE: What's the decibel level of
4 those air conditioners?
5 THE WITNESS: Those air conditioners will
6 produce decibels of approximately 72
decibels at, I
7 want to say 10 feet away.
8 MR. FAASSE: Okay.
Could you relate it to
9 a commercial compressor or home compressor?
10 THE WITNESS: Well, 65-decibel, the state
11 regulations allow us or basically dictate
that we can
12 not produce anything more than 65 decibels
measured
13 from the source, which in this case would be
the
14 air-conditioner, the equipment to a commercial
property
15 line during daytime or nighttime. Sixty-five decibels
16 measured from the source to the residential
property
17 line between the hours of 10 o'clock -- I'm
sorry, 7
18 o'clock in the morning and 10 o'clock at
night. Then
19 those -- then that drops to 50 between 10
o'clock at
20 night and seven in the morning. And we'll comply with
21 that.
If this site is constructed and there's an issue
22 with
noise we'll do what we need to fix it.
What I
23 mean by fix it, we'll put special mufflers
on any vents
24 or in this particular case we have a
generator. So
25 we'll put in a hospital-class-type of
muffler
81
1 enclosure.
2 Other issues, if I needed to do
more than
3 that I have special covers that I can put
over the
4 bottom of my air-conditioning units that
will reduce
5 that by six decibels. You should know that we have two
6 air conditioner units, but they're
cycled. So only one
7 runs at a time. So one runs three or four hours and
8 shuts off.
Next one runs three or four hours and shuts
9 off.
Just easy to maintain.
10 MR. FAASSE: And in the summer they run
11 24/7?
12 THE WITNESS: If needed.
One at a time,
13 not both at the same time. Just one at a time.
14 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: How much louder will
15 those air conditioners be than the window
air
16 conditioner at my house?
17 THE WITNESS: Not that much larger, this is
18 a five-ton unit.
19 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: I mean, louder not
20 size.
Noise level.
21 THE WITNESS: I would to say -- a window
22 unit?
23 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: Yes.
24 THE WITNESS: Say, how many BTUs 5,000,
25 4,000?
82
1 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: During -- yeah, say
2 5,000.
3 THE WITNESS: I'd say 5,000 BTUs, a window
4 unit maybe 40 decibels at 10 feet away. It really
5 depends on how far away you are. Here I'm looking at
6 close to 70 decibels at 10 to 15 feet away.
7 BOARD MEMBER WILLSE: The orientation of
8 those air-conditioning units do they face the
pole or
9 face the Golden Ager's building?
10 THE WITNESS: The air-conditioning units do
11 face the pole.
12 Back to Exhibit A-6. On that exhibit not
13 only do I have an enlarged site plan of the
compound
14 area -- one thing I should mention also,
we're
15 proposing some landscaping around our compound. We're
16 proposing nine Norway Spruces and ten
Colorado Spruces,
17 both species eight feet at the time of
planting. So we
18 have a fence that will secure our
compound. And
19 outside that fence we're putting some
landscaping to
20 soften that view and block it from the
public view.
21 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: That gate is locked?
22 THE WITNESS: That gate is locked.
23 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Who maintains the
24 flag?
25 THE WITNESS: The flag, I believe, is going
83
1 to be the landlord.
2 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: The landlord will
3 have a key to the gate, or is the flag you
mean gated
4 at night?
5 THE WITNESS: The flag right now I'm not
6 proposing any illumination. The reason being --
7 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Will the flag be
8 taken down every night?
9 THE WITNESS: That will only be required if
10 it's an American Flag. On Sheet Z-4 --
11 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: What other flag --
12 MR. FAASSE: We're not going to let you put
13 up a French Flag.
14 MR. STILWELL: A large pineapple.
15 THE WITNESS: On Sheet Z-4 I have an
16 elevation of the monopole. And I have a designated
17 proposed 12 by 18-foot flag designed for the
landlord.
18 This can be an American Flag. It can be a flag that
19 says Golden Ager's welcome to Wanaque. We leave it up
20 to the town or up to the Board. If this was an
21 American Flag I would have to light it.
22 MR. STILWELL: From a leasing standpoint
23 the VFW and the veterans will -- the VFW and
I
24 forget -- they're sharing in the rent, but I
have a
25 feeling it will probably be an American
Flag. That
84
1 will be attended to by them.
2 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: So they'll have a
3 key?
4 MR. STILWELL: Yes.
5 BOARD MEMBER COVELLI: But you'll light it?
6 THE WITNESS: If it is an American Flag,
7 yes, I'll need to light it.
8 BOARD MEMBER COVELLI: You need to prepare
9
for that, because if the flag were decided and the
10 lighting wasn't prepared for it it would be
a problem.
11 THE WITNESS: The lighting is pretty simple
12 on this.
I mean, there's Federal standards I have to
13 meet.
I just need to shine enough light on this to
14 distinguish between the stars and
stripes. And that's
15 it.
And I can do that pretty much with a light at the
16 base that shines straight up at the flag,
say, maybe
17 150 watt halogen.
18 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: A hundred thirty-five
19 feet up?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
Last time I was in Town
21 Hall, I forget the date, the flag for the
pole out here
22 wasn't on.
But there was enough light from the
23 streetlights that you can distinguish
between the stars
24 and stripes.
That's important. That's all I
need to
25 do to meet the Federal standards.
85
1 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: But there's no
2 streetlights over there.
3 THE WITNESS: I just need to distinguish
4 between the stars and stripes. We don't have to light
5 this unless you prefer it as a monumental
type of
6 flagpole.
To meet the minimum standard the Federal
7 government puts out for flying flags I just
have to
8 shine enough light on there to distinguish
the stars
9 and stripes.
And if no light is proposed then
10
someone's going to have to lower that flag every night.
11 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Are you proposing any
12 irrigation for the landscaping?
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: So how are those
15 trees going to be watered?
16 THE WITNESS: How are they going to be
17 watered?
18 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: I asked you first.
19 THE WITNESS: I'm going to ask one of the
20 Golden Ager's people to water it.
21 MR. STILWELL: It's a technique.
22 THE WITNESS: It's usually done with a
23
garden hose, whether the Verizon technicians do it or
24 the Golden Agers.
25 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: But there's no water
86
1 on-site on your proposed building.
2 THE WITNESS: That's right.
3 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: So the water will
4 have to come from the Golden Agers.
5 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
6 MR. STILWELL: Typically, we don't object
7 to a condition that requires us to bond -- I
think
8 under the municipal land use law it requires
bonding
9 for landscaping for up to, I think, three
years.
10 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: It's usually not an
11 issue once they take hold.
12 MR. STILWELL: Exactly.
We would replace
13 anything that dies.
14 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Just one overall
15 question before you go any further. This site, 1.33
16 acres, I think you said was in your table is
800-some
17 odd feet of frontage, 997 feet of frontage.
18 THE WITNESS: Correct.
19 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: What made you pick
20 that one specific location for that
structure and
21 monopole as opposed to some other potential
locations
22 on the site?
23 THE WITNESS: I was directed there by the
24 property owner. That's where they wanted to see it.
25 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Would it be possible
87
1 in any way to take that structure and put it
behind
2 their structure?
3 THE WITNESS: No.
There's no room there.
4 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: It's not 12 by
5 30 feet there?
6 THE WITNESS: There wouldn't be any room.
7 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: I'm looking at what
8 you have on this sheet Z-3. It looks like it would fit
9 back there with room to spare. Taking away your
10 fencing and your screening, because there
would be less
11 that you would be needing behind the
building.
12 BOARD MEMBER COVELLI: That property drops
13 behind the building.
14 THE WITNESS: Not only does it drop, it's
15 used.
It's sort of a picnic area for the Golden Agers.
16 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: What about on the
17 other side of the building away from the
home?
18 THE WITNESS: On the south side? Again, it
19 wasn't a location that the Golden Agers wanted
to see
20 it there.
21 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: But actually it
22 could be moved anywhere on-site?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes.
As long as I have
24 pretty much -- as long as I have that --
25 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: A usually level
88
1 area.
2 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
I need approximately
3 50 by 25 footprint to fit everything in like
I'm
4 showing.
5 MR. STILWELL: Also, as long as whatever
6 area was moved to qualify from Verizon's due
diligence
7 standpoint environmental conditions, we'd
have to do a
8 Phase One and maybe Two on any new area for
9 environmental conditions.
10 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: You did an
11 environmental impact study?
12 MR. STILWELL: We did.
For our particular
13 location, we did, yes.
14 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: I didn't see that in
15 the packet.
16 THE WITNESS: It may not be an EIS like it
17 used to --
18 MR. STILWELL: It's just an internal
19 document that we generate on all of our
sites. But
20 we're also required by Federal regulations
to do a
21 NEPA, National Environmental Protection Act
analysis on
22 all of our sites.
23 MR. GREGOR: You did a Phase One analysis
24 for that location on the site?
25 MR. STILWELL: Right.
89
1 MR. GREGOR: Would you provide that to the
2 Board?
3 MR. STILWELL: I believe that they consider
4 those to be proprietary.
5 MR. GREGOR: Phase One analysis
6 proprietary?
7 MR. STILWELL: It is.
I'm not even allowed
8 to make them available to the landlord. I don't even
9 show it to the landlord.
10 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: How do we know if
11 you found anything that's at issue?
12 MR. STILWELL: If we found anything that's
13 at issue we wouldn't be here.
14 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: We don't know that.
15 Without having any way to study it how would
we know
16 what your survey came up with? We're just taking your
17 word for it, right?
18 MR. STILWELL: Well --
19 MR. FAASSE: One of the reasons you can
20 deny an application is lack of evidence, if
we find
21 that to be critical.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Z-4, I'm sorry.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes. I
want to get to the
24 site elevation. I want to talk about the monopole or
25 the concealment monopole. It's a monopole designed to
90
1 conceal the antennas. This particular monopole rises
2 135 feet.
From the top down we're proposing a 6-foot
3 concealment canister, below that we're
proposing a
4 10-foot concealment canister, and below that
we're
5 proposing one more 10-foot concealment canister.
6 Basically, what a canister is it's a
fiberglass housing
7 similar to what's outside Town Hall
here. You take
8 them off, there's a pipe in the middle, and
the
9 antennas attach to that pipe and the
concealment. The
10 fiberglass domes go right back on. So you don't see
11 the antennas. All the antennas and the coaxial are
12 internal to this monopole.
13 MR. FAASSE: What is the actual height of
14 the antennas?
15 THE WITNESS: The actual height of the
16 antennas above grade, or the physical
dimension of the
17 antennas?
18 MR. FAASSE: No, above grade.
19 THE WITNESS: Verizon's proposing one set
20 of antennas at 130 feet to the
centerline. And then
21 below that another set of antennas, three
antennas at
22 123 feet to the centerline.
23 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: All for Verizon?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
So they're proposing
25 two sets of three antennas. Below that we are
91
1 proposing one more stair, 10-foot
concealment canister
2 for the possibility of a future collocator.
3 MR. FAASSE: What's that?
4 THE WITNESS: That centerline to the
5 centerline would be another 10 feet below
123. So 113
6 centerline.
Actually, on Sheet Z-5, I need to
7 apologize, we're only proposing four
antennas: Two at
8 the higher level, and two below that.
9 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: The fiberglass
10 housing that goes over these concealments
are they
11 solid in nature? Are they perforated? Are they
12 louvered?
13 THE WITNESS: They're solid.
14 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: So there would be no
15 whistling or wind noise as the wind blows
through it?
16 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
17 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: The rope or the
18 mechanism that raises and lowers the flag;
is that
19 internal?
20 THE WITNESS: No, that's external.
21 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: That's a rope?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 MR. GRYGUS: It's a rope 135 feet up?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Who maintains that?
92
1 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?
2 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Who maintains that?
3 THE WITNESS: That would be Verizon.
4 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: What do you do to
5 keep that from whipping around?
6 THE WITNESS: I can have the monopole or
7 flagpole designed to have a track that will
keep the
8 rope from swinging.
9 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: You say you can or
10 you will?
11 THE WITNESS: I can, and I will, if you --
12 MR. STILWELL: All you have to do is tell
13 us that's what you want and we'll do it.
14 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: I don't want the
15 neighbors listening to the --
16 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: Bang, bang, bang.
17 MR. STILWELL: That's fine.
That's
18 acceptable as a condition.
19 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: And you stated before
20 that you will light the pole?
21 THE WITNESS: Yes, if it's preferred.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: To meet the Federal
23 requirement?
24 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: To meet the Federal
25 requirement.
Because maybe not this time, but maybe
93
1 they're going to fly an Iraqi flag or
whatever, I don't
2 know.
To me it seems silly to have this thing here and
3 not figure it's going to be an American
Flag. And I
4 want to see the light on it.
5 MR. STILWELL: That's fine.
We don't have
6
any problem with that.
7 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: And if they decide
8 not to put a light there for the time being,
down the
9 road it's going to be a major problem to add
a light to
10 it.
11 MR. STILWELL: Not a problem, is it?
12 THE WITNESS: It's not a problem. I'll
13 submit some details to your engineer.
14 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: Once you people build
15 this I don't think it's going to be easy to
take make
16 an application.
17 THE WITNESS: Again, the light that we
18 typically use it's almost like a stick in a
bucket in
19 the ground.
20 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: I understand that,
21 but if we don't request it now to get this
thing done
22 after it's built is going to be a problem.
23 MR. STILWELL: We don't have any problem
24 with that.
25 THE WITNESS: I will propose a light
94
1 subject to your Township -- the Board
Engineer's
2 approval.
3 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Are you done with
4 Z-5?
5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
6 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: If you can go back to
7 Z-3, I guess I'm going by the assumption
here on your
8 table, you're listing the four required
variances?
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Okay.
Your seven
11
parking spaces that you're adding are also going to
12 require a variance because they don't meet
the Borough
13 code, which is 10 by 20.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
I just need to correct
15 one thing.
I think my planner will disagree with me.
16 He'll say that where I'm showing block
coverage at 74.2
17 percent of the variance he'll probably say
that's not,
18 because I'm actually decreasing a
nonconformity, I'm
19 not increasing it.
20 MR. STILWELL: That's exactly what he's
21 going to say.
22 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: There's another, another
23 variance here. You're proposing an 8-foot high fence?
24 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
25 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: I don't think we have an
95
1 ordinance that permits that.
2 THE WITNESS: Your ordinance permits a
3 four-foot high fence. So we would ask for the 8-foot
4 high fence for security purposes.
5 MR. FAASSE: We're going to need a list of
6 these things.
7 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: My other question:
8 Is the entire site in the active adult
housing zone?
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 MR. GREGOR: From my review of the zoning
11 map the site is split down the middle
between the adult
12 housing zone and the business.
13 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: The question would be
14 then what zoning criteria are we utilizing?
15 MR. GREGOR: I would recommend you use the
16 adult housing criteria as your basis, however,
this use
17 is not a permitted use in either zone, which
is the
18 reason why they're here.
19 MR. FAASSE: Well, the proposed
20 construction is in what zone?
21 MR. GREGOR: The proposed construction is
22 in the AAH portion of this block.
23 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Okay.
But if you
24 look at --
25 MR. FAASSE: It's a split lot.
96
1 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: But if you look at
2 the application it's only bulk variances.
3 MR. FAASSE: Well, that application leaves
4 something to be desired. I don't see a consent by the
5 Golden Agers.
6 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: No conditional use
7 fee.
8 MR. FAASSE: I'm just looking at the notice
9 that they gave.
10 THE WITNESS: I can't figure that out. I'm
11 looking at the zoning map and I'm looking at
Villa
12 Place and --
13 MR. GREGOR: That zoning map is not
14 correct.
I think I indicated that in my discussion
15 with your office that the -- and I'll be
glad to
16 clarify that, what we'd like to see. Just -- I'm
17 saying, my evaluation states that it's in
both zones.
18 And I would request that subject to any
action by the
19 Board that the drawings reflect that, and if
there's
20 any consultation needed with my office I'll
be more
21 than happy to provide it.
22 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: It does provide a
23 use.
24 MR. FAASSE: It should have.
25 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Was it advertised as
97
1 a use?
2 MR. FAASSE: I don't know, I'm looking.
3 THE WITNESS: I apologize to the Board but
4 this is a map that we obtained from the
township.
5 MR. FAASSE: No, it doesn't.
6 THE WITNESS: I had no idea that was wrong.
7 MR. STILWELL: The notice describes exactly
8 what we're proposing, and asks for -- and
describes
9 what the bulk variances that we agreed on at
the time.
10 And it also describes the fact that we're
seeking any
11 and all other required variances, approvals,
waivers,
12 interpretation, ET cetera.
13 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: But it's
14 jurisdictional, if you don't advertise for a
use.
15 MR. STILWELL: Well, I would contend that
16 the notice that we published is broad enough
to include
17 a specific use variance.
18 MR. FAASSE: Well, technically they're
19 asking for 135-foot height monopole. So the use is
20 specified.
21 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: I just wanted to make
22 sure, because the application didn't
indicate it was a
23 use.
24 MR. FAASSE: But you don't have the consent
25 of the owner on the application. I can't tell who that
98
1 signature is. I mean, I don't know what happened to
2 the formality where you always had to type
the
3 signature below the line. I mean, I've got there a
4 wave.
5 MR. STILWELL: I submitted a letter of
6 authorization with the application. It's the Borough
7 of Wanaque Golden Agers nonprofit, et
cetera. It looks
8 like it's Genevieve -- oh, general
manager. I'm sorry.
9 You probably would know better than me. And it was
10 notarized by Tom Carolle.
11 MR. FAASSE: Well, whose signature is on
12 the first page of the application, that
wave?
13 MR. STILWELL: That "G" like thing?
14 MR. FAASSE: I don't know what it is.
15 MR. STILWELL: That would be Greg.
16 MR. FAASSE: His penmanship hasn't improved
17 since he moved south.
18 MR. STILWELL: No, it hasn't. He has a
19 very easy signature to duplicate.
20 MR. FAASSE: I know.
People don't realize
21 it.
22 MR. STILWELL: Well, I guess we're going to
23 need some clarification in terms of --
24 MR. FAASSE: We're getting very close to
25 the you curfew time too. Is there anything that this
99
1 witness needs to highlight? Because one of the things,
2 we need these revised plans all filed with
the Board so
3 they can study.
4 MR. STILWELL: Right.
He'll be back.
5 We'll be back. We'll file the revised plans and we'll
6 clarify this situation with the business
zone. If I
7 think it's necessary to re-notice I'll do
that.
8 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: You're going to list on
9 your notice all the variances that you're
seeking?
10 MR. STILWELL: Yes. I
think they're on the
11 bulk chart.
12 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: But they're going to put
13
something -- also, isn't the width between the parking
14 spaces close to 25 feet?
15 MR. GREGOR: Yes, that's the variance. The
16 24 feet is a functional number that's
utilized by most
17 towns.
Wanaque has a requirement for 25-foot aisle
18 width.
So that would be a bulk variance that would
19 need to be listed on the site plan as well.
20 THE WITNESS: Okay.
21 MR. GREGOR: They're adding parking here
22 which narrows the width that is open
space. So it's
23 more than 25 feet as exists, but between
parking
24 spaces --
25 MR. FAASSE: They're replacing the parking.
100
1 MR. GREGOR: Right.
The ones you're losing
2 over here they're putting over there.
3 MR. FAASSE: Got you.
4 MR. GREGOR: And I do have some suggestions
5 on site circulation, that if you're going to
be
6 revising plans you might want to contact my
office to
7 consider those suggestions. I don't know if you want
8 to get into that now.
9 MR. FAASSE: Just one other question here:
10 The former recycling center, is that going
back to the
11 town as well?
12 THE WITNESS: No, it's not.
13 MR. FAASSE: So it's just going to be Villa
14 Way?
15 MR. STILWELL: Villa Place.
Would it be
16 correct that you'll be carrying this to the
February
17 7th date?
18 MR. FAASSE: Well, do we have anything else
19 that you want to highlight in like two
minutes so
20 everyone can mull over, including the
public?
21 MR. STILWELL: I don't, only because we'll
22 be submitting revised plans. And I think it will
23 include a list, a chart that will delineate
the
24 variances more specifically so it's very
clear what's
25 going on.
101
1 MR. FAASSE: Okay.
2 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Colasurdo, anything you
3 want to highlight other than the fact that
it's a great
4 application?
5 THE WITNESS: No. I
guess the one thing --
6 the last thing I should mention with the
remaining time
7 I have is the traffic patterns. We are proposing a
8 modification to the traffic patterns that
currently
9 exist.
The entrance to the, I'm going to refer to it
10 as the northern property, northern parking
lot, the
11 same parking lot that we're proposing the
compound,
12 that's a two-way access currently.
13 There's also a secondary access
into that
14 northern parking lot right next to the
recycling
15 center.
What I'm proposing is to create the first
16 access closest to the Golden Agers Center as
an exit
17 only.
Have people enter the most northerly curb cut,
18 travel through the parking lot and then exit
out
19 that -- the existing or currently two-way,
change that
20 to a one-way exit only curb cut and that
will help with
21 circulation through the parking lot once we
put this
22 compound in.
23 MR. FAASSE: I know the public is dying to
24 hear the answer. What's the width of this or diameter
25 at the base?
102
1 THE WITNESS: Width of this monopole
2 currently how we designed it, 42 inches at
the base,
3 tapering down to 26 inches just before the
concealment
4 canisters start, and then it's a straight
section with
5 the concealment canisters.
6 MR. FAASSE: About 42 inches at the base?
7 THE WITNESS: I would say between 42 and
8 44, or even say 46. That's going to depend on a couple
9 of issues.
The main one is, if approved I do some soil
10 tests.
That soil test will dictate the foundation
11 design.
It will dictate the diameter of that pole at
12 the base, how strong it has to be.
13 MR. FAASSE: Maximum is 46 inches?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, that would be a correct
15 number to use.
16 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: Can I make a
17 suggestion?
If you're going to maintain that traffic
18 pattern you might look at the seven spaces
you're
19 adding, angle them and you might eliminate
the variance
20 for the 24 width.
21 THE WITNESS: I did see that. I apologize.
22 I thought your zoning regulations said 24
feet. If
23 it's 24 feet if I put those on a 60-degree
angle then
24 I'll meet that and eliminate that
variance. I'll
25 double check that, but I think it is 24
feet. I'll
103
1 double-check that.
2 MR. GREGOR: I will as well.
3 THE WITNESS: Thanks.
4 MR. FAASSE: Counselor, any more
5 housekeeping before we entertain a motion to
carry this
6 to the February 7th meeting?
7 MR. STILWELL: No, sir.
8 MR. FAASSE: Okay.
So now you're going to
9 have one more witness after this?
10 MR. STILWELL: Correct.
Obviously, he'll
11 be my first witness next time.
12 MR. FAASSE: Oh, absolutely. And are you
13 going to bring back your fine RF man?
14 MR. STILWELL: We were hoping you'd say
15 there was no need to bring back our fine RF
man.
16 MR. FAASSE: I don't think the Board has,
17 but does the Board have any need for the --
if
18 something does come up you might just run the
risk that
19 we'll have to carry until we hear him again.
20 MR. STILWELL: I'll talk to my client.
21 MR. FAASSE: Well, you know these. You've
22 done enough of these, Counsel. The public might have a
23 burning question between now and then.
24 MR. STILWELL: I understand.
25 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Counsel?
Each plan has
104
1 to be filed with the Board at least ten days
prior to
2 our next meeting.
3 MR. STILWELL: Not a problem.
4 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: To the Board, not the
5 Borough.
And please send a copy directly to Mr. Gregor
6 as soon as you get them done.
7 MR. STILWELL: Okay.
8 BOARD MEMBER GRYGUS: How many copies?
9 MR. STILWELL: Twenty sets.
Okay, Frank?
10 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Can a survey be done by
11 the next meeting?
12 MR. STILWELL: Survey was done.
13 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Do we have a copy of it?
14 MR. STILWELL: Mr. Gregor has a copy.
15 THE WITNESS: The new survey.
16 MR. STILWELL: The new survey?
17 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: That's why I'm asking.
18 On your revised Z-3 --
19 THE WITNESS: I don't know if that's
20 completed yet. The surveyor who prepared the site
21 survey that I used to reference and prepare
my site
22 plans is working with the town to prepare
the new one.
23 I'll contact him.
24 MR. FAASSE: But don't we have the old one?
25 THE WITNESS: You got the old one.
105
1 MR. FAASSE: Because that was the problem
2 last month.
3 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: But we don't have the
4 new ones.
And you reference that on your drawing that
5 it's not finished.
6 MR. FAASSE: But we wouldn't have a survey,
7 say, until the actual transfer.
8 MR. GREGOR: No, what we're looking for,
9 Ralph, is a survey showing proposed
dedication by metes
10 and bounds description.
11 MR. FAASSE: So the existing survey showing
12 the dedication, correct?
13 THE WITNESS: The survey that you currently
14 have is the existing conditions as is. This exhibit
15 Sheet A-5 is depicting what will
become. We do not
16 have a survey of that.
17 MR. GREGOR: You will have that before the
18 next meeting, the proposed metes and bounds
dedication?
19 THE WITNESS: I'm hoping.
Again, the
20 survey is contracted directly with the town.
21 MR. GREGOR: Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: Okay.
23 MR. FAASSE: Anything else?. Otherwise,
24 gentlemen, time to make a motion.
25 BOARD MEMBER LUDWIG: I make a motion to
106
1 carry this to February 7th meeting.
2 BOARD MEMBER LEONARD: I second.
3 (Roll call vote taken; unanimous
vote
4 "yes".)
5 MR. STILWELL: And we're leaving the
6 exhibits?
7 CHAIRMAN DUNNING: It's easier, this way if
8 we want to look at them.
9 MR. STILWELL: That's fine.
10 BOARD MEMBER HOFFMAN: This way if the
11 public wants to look at them.
12 MR. FAASSE: I want to make sure that we
13 have an extension through the end of
February?
14 MR. STILWELL: Right.
I'll be happy to
15 extend that to the end of March, if you
want, in case
16 it snows in February.
17 MR. FAASSE: Absolutely.
March the 31st.
18 MR. STILWELL: As long as I keep saying
19 that it will stay warm.
20 MR. FAASSE: Well, that's the theory.
21 MR. STILWELL: All right.
Thank you.
22 (Whereupon, the application
adjourns at
23 10:38 p.m.)
24
25
107
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 I, IRIS LA ROSA, a Notary Public
and Certified
4 Shorthand Reporter of the State of New
Jersey, do
5 hereby certify that the foregoing is a true
and
6 accurate transcript of the testimony as taken
7 stenographically by and before me at the
time, place,
8 and on the date herein before set forth.
9 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am
neither a
10 relative nor employee nor attorney nor
counsel of any
11 of the parties to this action, and that I am
neither a
12 relative nor employee of such attorney or
counsel, and
13 that I am not financially interested in the
action.
14
15
IRIS LA
ROSA, CSR, RPR
16 Certificate No. XI 01628
17 Dated: January 16, 2007